Or more than two? Why not run a whole street with one fibre cable and have a splitter at each house?
If this is done, would it be cheaper?
(I am asking because this has just been done).

trade4us2 - 2021-03-02 19:10:00

Your asking someone to confirm something you already know had happened?

nice_lady - 2021-03-02 20:46:00

trade4us2 wrote:

Why not run a whole street with one fibre cable and have a splitter at each house?

Technically I think you'd be better having one splitter at one house and then running fibre back to each house.

The splitters have an insertion loss so if you chained a whole street using splitters then the last house wouldn't see the light.

gyrogearloose - 2021-03-02 21:03:00

trade4us2 wrote:

Or more than two? Why not run a whole street with one fibre cable and have a splitter at each house?
If this is done, would it be cheaper?
(I am asking because this has just been done).

Do you mean you are asking because someone has just run one fibre install to several houses, or are you asking because you have just had fibre installed? - Your question is a bit ambiguous as worded. :)

zirconium - 2021-03-02 21:16:00

gyrogearloose wrote:

Technical-
ly I think you'd be better having one splitter at one house and then running fibre back to each house.

The splitters have an insertion loss so if you chained a whole street using splitters then the last house wouldn't see the light.

Yes I think you are right.
I have had fibre for years. My neighbour has asked for fibre to be installed for him. What should be done is to run a new fibre from the distribution box 150 metres away, through the same conduit as my fibre, to a box in the footpath, then up a new conduit to my neighbour's house.

Chorus attempted to do that a year ago but their conduit in the footpath had so many right angle bends in it that they couldn't get the fibre along it without digging up the concrete footpath each time.
What Chorus has now done is to put a splitter in the box outside my house and run a fibre to each of our houses. So we are sharing 150 metres of fibre. In theory that should slow down the internet for both of us.
He does not have a modem yet so I can't test the speed.
We will do a test when his modem is installed.
If I had known Chorus was going to do that, we could have shared the cable ourselves somehow, and shared the cost, which is around $100 per month.

trade4us2 - 2021-03-02 21:23:00

zirconium wrote:

Do you mean you are asking because someone has just run one fibre install to several houses, or are you asking because you have just had fibre installed? - Your question is a bit ambiguous as worded. :)

If what Chorus has now done is acceptable, why don't they have a spliitter for each two houses? So far every house in my street has its own 100+ metres of fibre.

trade4us2 - 2021-03-02 21:26:00

trade4us2 wrote:

If what Chorus has now done is acceptable, why don't they have a spliitter for each two houses? So far every house in my street has its own 100+ metres of fibre.

You need to take the little knowledge you have and stop over thinking things.

A beam splitter won’t affect your connection - a single fibre has a capacity of well over 1000 gb the actual fibre has little to do with your speed it’s just a piece of simple tuned glass or polymer
How do you think your fibre is connected to the trunk ? Through a splinter with 16 others houses in your street and if space allows can be even higher 32 splits .

Enjoy your internet and don’t worry about chorus architecture

Edited by shakespeare6 at 11:51 pm, Tue 2 Mar

shakespeare6 - 2021-03-02 23:50:00

What if one household bought fibre and ran a network cable to their neighbor and then they would be able to split the cost per month?

tygertung - 2021-03-03 08:06:00

Nothing stopping you trenching fibre to your neighbor and creating a network (preferably not with ISP supplied toys).

spyware - 2021-03-03 08:53:00

I would have thought that would be completely against the terms and conditions of service and most likely get you disconnected if it was discovered.
But why would you with the copyright laws etc, you have no control over what neighbour might be doing on your internet connection

king1 - 2021-03-03 09:05:00

One might use an encrypted VPN and that way perhaps the ISP might not be able to see what you and your neighbor are looking up online, with regard to security and copyright laws?

tygertung - 2021-03-03 09:43:00

shakespeare6 wrote:

You need to take the little knowledge you have and stop over thinking things.

A beam splitter won’t affect your connection - a single fibre has a capacity of well over 1000 gb the actual fibre has little to do with your speed it’s just a piece of simple tuned glass or polymer
How do you think your fibre is connected to the trunk ? Through a splinter with 16 others houses in your street and if space allows can be even higher 32 splits .

Enjoy your internet and don’t worry about chorus architecture

I have already asked "Why not run a whole street with one fibre cable and have a splitter at each house?"
You have not answered why they have not done that until now. They have run at least 10 fibre cables along the street. Are Chorus stupid?

trade4us2 - 2021-03-03 11:16:00

tygertung wrote:

One might use an encrypted VPN and that way perhaps the ISP might not be able to see what you and your neighbor are looking up online, with regard to security and copyright laws?

not really the ISP you need to worry about, they only respond to complaints from commercial interests and law enforcement, so an encrypted VPN may or may not actually be helpful if the VPN supplier is served with a court order.
It is debatable how much teeth the law actually has, but who wants to take that risk...

king1 - 2021-03-03 11:19:00

tygertung wrote:

What if one household bought fibre and ran a network cable to their neighbor and then they would be able to split the cost per month?

My neighbour offered to pay for half my bill if I told him my wifi password. For various very good reasons I didn't want to do that.
But now Chorus have got him using my fibre cable anyway.

trade4us2 - 2021-03-03 11:20:00

trade4us2 wrote:

My neighbour offered to pay for half my bill if I told him my wifi password. For various very good reasons I didn't want to do that.
But now Chorus have got him using my fibre cable anyway.

thats like saying the neighbour is using my water pipe is it not? it's not your fibre cable, your fibre cable starts at the front gate to your home

Edited by king1 at 11:25 am, Wed 3 Mar

king1 - 2021-03-03 11:25:00

king1 wrote:

thats like saying the neighbour is using my water pipe is it not? it's not your fibre cable, your fibre cable starts at the front gate to your home

No, until yesterday my fibre cable started 150 metres along the footpath and ran in a conduit to an old box in the footpath and into the conduit that I laid from that box and up to my house. There were no breaks or connections in that fibre.
Now there is a splitter box in the old box in the footpath. Do you understand yet?

trade4us2 - 2021-03-03 12:13:00

trade4us2 wrote:

I have already asked "Why not run a whole street with one fibre cable and have a splitter at each house?"
You have not answered why they have not done that until now. They have run at least 10 fibre cables along the street. Are Chorus stupid?

Maybe not Chorus but some of their contractors are. Took them a month to work out how to make my phone work again after a fiber install.

namtak - 2021-03-03 12:39:00

trade4us2 wrote:

No, until yesterday my fibre cable started 150 metres along the footpath and ran in a conduit to an old box in the footpath and into the conduit that I laid from that box and up to my house. There were no breaks or connections in that fibre.Now there is a splitter box in the old box in the footpath. Do you understand yet?

yep but it still isn't your cable, your cable starts at the old box. you are not entitled to your own dedicated fibre cable back to the main trunk or wherever it goes. As long as your broadband is being supplied to your property, that's all that matters. How Chorus get that to you is up to them...
As was mentioned earlier fibre is capable of far greater bandwidth than currently utilised (it could probably run the whole street off one cable given the right hardware at the backend) . Your fibre plan is probably only utilising 1/100 or less of its actual capacity...

Edited by king1 at 12:46 pm, Wed 3 Mar

king1 - 2021-03-03 12:41:00

Each fibre drop cable has 2 fibres inside. I presume Chorus have connected spare fibre to your neighbour. The only problem being if your fibre goes faulty it will take longer to repair as they cant swap service over to spare fibre.

aph4u1 - 2021-03-03 13:10:00

aph4u1 wrote:

Each fibre drop cable has 2 fibres inside. I presume Chorus have connected spare fibre to your neighbour. The only problem being if your fibre goes faulty it will take longer to repair as they cant swap service over to spare fibre.

Are you sure the cable has 2 fibres inside?
Why didn't they use the other cable a year ago instead of trying to feed a new cable up the conduit with my cable in it, and then giving up for a year?

trade4us2 - 2021-03-03 14:34:00

trade4us2 wrote:

Are you sure the cable has 2 fibres inside?
Why didn't they use the other cable a year ago instead of trying to feed a new cable up the conduit with my cable in it, and then giving up for a year?

As you were told in your thread last year, " ask Chorus". See if they will give you a course on how THEY install fibre. You seem to know how YOU think it should be done and you never know, if your ideas are any good, they may even give you a job designing their network.
As I think I may have said last year. "It pays (in most cases) to leave the experts job to the experts".

Edited by perfectimages at 3:10 pm, Wed 3 Mar

perfectimages - 2021-03-03 15:00:00

king1 wrote:

not really the ISP you need to worry about, they only respond to complaints from commercial interests and law enforcement, so an encrypted VPN may or may not actually be helpful if the VPN supplier is served with a court order.
It is debatable how much teeth the law actually has, but who wants to take that risk...

I guess it depends on what country the vpn is in to determine whether a court order can be served. Anyway if there is end for end encryption going on, noone can see what you are looking up anyway can they? That is my understanding, I could be wrong.

tygertung - 2021-03-03 15:26:00

king1 wrote:

I would have thought that would be completely against the terms and conditions of service and most likely get you disconnected if it was discovered. ...

Near zero chance of being discovered.

Someone would have to tell the ISP

loose.unit8 - 2021-03-03 15:43:00

perfectimages wrote:

As you were told in your thread last year, " ask Chorus". See if they will give you a course on how THEY install fibre. You seem to know how YOU think it should be done and you never know, if your ideas are any good, they may even give you a job designing their network.
As I think I may have said last year. "It pays (in most cases) to leave the experts job to the experts".

Which thread last year? Chorus are not experts at all. They have made mistakes for years. They laid conduits in the footpath with right-angle bends, so they could not get anything along it. They said that my ground was too hard to dig, so I laid my own conduit and drilled a hole in my floor.
They said that my old phone would not work, and were very surprised that it worked when I plugged it in.

trade4us2 - 2021-03-03 16:16:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Near zero chance of being discovered.

Someone would have to tell the ISP

yep and how would that happen...

"But why would you with the copyright laws etc, you have no control over what neighbour might be doing on your internet connection"

king1 - 2021-03-03 16:17:00

Who is getting done over for copyright laws anyway.

Surely with end to end encryption going on, noone can see what you are looking at anyway?

tygertung - 2021-03-03 20:14:00

tygertung wrote:

Who is getting done over for copyright laws anyway.

Surely with end to end encryption going on, noone can see what you are looking at anyway?

probably no-one but humans are always the weakest link. an end to end VPN is fine if you have absolute trust and control at either end...
If you're just grabbing a dodgy stream of the NRL I don't think anyone much is going to care, but in the context of the original post and letting your neighbour use your own connection, I wouldn't, unless you trusted them with your life...

Edited by king1 at 8:55 pm, Wed 3 Mar

king1 - 2021-03-03 20:53:00

My understanding was that if one was looking at an https:// site that it was encrypted and and that noone would be able to intercept and see what one was looking at on that site? Perhaps only that they visited that site?

tygertung - 2021-03-04 08:12:00

tygertung wrote:

My understanding was that if one was looking at an https:// site that it was encrypted and and that noone would be able to intercept and see what one was looking at on that site? Perhaps only that they visited that site?

that would be a yes BUT...
https://www.quora.com/Is-HTTPS-encryption-breakable

To be fair there won't be too many that have these capabilities - some of the better hackers, dodgy government departments in even dodgier countries, that sort of thing.

For the average Joe watching stuff online they are moreso protected by the fact that everyone's doing it and no one really cares *that* much - problem is too big to tackle efficiently...

For Dodgy Basterd Rings who like to share their collections it is worth their time and effort, but they still need to gather physical evidence from endpoints ie the dumpster diving, stings and informants etc

I don't know this for a fact but I would suggest that in most cases law enforcement would not discover new crimes by intercepting https traffic (maybe used afterwards to gather evidence perhaps) - they would discover the new crimes by conventional means, informants, tips, interviews with associated people that know, subpoenas, that sort of thing, and then maybe forensic investigation of devices...

king1 - 2021-03-04 08:34:00

interesting read
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/12/20/scientis
ts-develop-absolutely-unbreakable-encryption-chip-using-chao
s-theory/

king1 - 2021-03-04 08:45:00

It would be a bummer if one could break into the https traffic as that would mean that villians could get into your bank, credit card etc. when doing online shopping.

tygertung - 2021-03-04 09:59:00

How many households would feasibly be able to get by one on fibre connection?

tygertung - 2021-03-04 15:21:00

in our street when the contractor installed the conduit for the Fibre there was provisinion for one Conduit per property left at each boundary until the eventual installation.
On the day of install an underground Thruster was then used for another conduit from the original to the connection box on the House.The fibre itself was blown from the box on the side of my house via the conduit back to the Terminal box approx 340 metres up the street, in an unbroken state.

axelvonduisberg - 2021-03-04 15:29:00

king1 wrote:

it's not your fibre cable, your fibre cable starts at the front gate to your home

My opinion would be that's it's not your fibre at all, it's Chorus fibre all the way to the ONT, and that belongs to Chorus as well. None of it is yours.

I've seen two fibre installs recently, one was an apartment new build and it has 2 fibres to each apartment from a box in the basement that I didn't see into, I'm not sure if they bought in multiple fibres or used an optical splitter.

The second was my house, where they bought in a cable through existing conduit, but immediately it was through the wall they spliced to a different cable that had the flexibility to go up the wall internally and through the ceiling to the ONT next to the alarm panel (I believe they use the previous copper as a draw wire). I can only see 1 fibre into the ONT, and despite telling them I wouldn't use copper they told me it's a hybrid cable which includes a copper pair. Who keeps saying copper is dead? I was impressed they completed this within 2 hours and did exactly the layout I asked them to follow.

Edited by gyrogearloose at 5:37 pm, Thu 4 Mar

gyrogearloose - 2021-03-04 17:33:00

gyrogearloose wrote:

My opinion would be that's it's not your fibre at all, it's Chorus fibre all the way to the ONT, and that belongs to Chorus as well. None of it is yours.

you might well be right...

king1 - 2021-03-04 18:01:00

The member deleted this message.

puddleduck00 - 2021-03-04 18:21:00

king1 wrote:

I would have thought that would be completely against the terms and conditions of service and most likely get you disconnected if it was discovered.
But why would you with the copyright laws etc, you have no control over what neighbour might be doing on your internet connection

Yes i was thinking the same thing King1. Every house has to have its own Fibre Connection from the Box at top of driveway as far as i know.

Edited by ferrit47 at 11:05 am, Sun 7 Mar

ferrit47 - 2021-03-07 11:04:00