I own a flat on a crosslease/leasehold property with 8 flats. I have to sell as the neighbours behind me make my life a living Hell. I have sought help from both Councils, the police, and a lawyer with no relief.

I've had a market appraisal and did not get an answer as to what can be done if my neighbours taint my sale. Currently, they obstruct the drive and my garage with two cars and their visitors park on the lawn making the property look like a slum. They have also built a fence and gates in the courtyard without permission and in Summer, install an inflatable pool for their grandchild.

I've already been ripped off by a local lawyer when I tried to get help regarding the crosslease and I have no money.

Apart from contacting Fair go, which I've just done, does anyone have experience with such a situation?

redden39 - 2021-10-21 19:43:00

Is the fence and gate in the courtyard for safety for their grandchild using the inflatable pool? If it's an eyesore, some nice plants could improve it. Maybe speak with them nicely about keeping the driveway and access to your garage free as you'll be having open homes etc. Make friends with them if you can.

mazalinas - 2021-10-21 20:11:00

Three questions:

Do the other neighbours own their flat?

Have you discussed this issue with the other flat owners?

What do you want advice on? Sorting out the neighbours or what happens if they scupper your sale?

Personally I wouldn't be discussing this on Fair Go, unless you can keep it completely confidential. If the agent knows about your key reason for selling, they have a duty to disclose that...

Edited by sparkychap at 8:31 pm, Thu 21 Oct

sparkychap - 2021-10-21 20:19:00

Unlikely you can prove or worth the cost to prove they taint the sale. Possible that citizens advice have some ideas. Can you rent your unit out and go somewhere for a while. Do the others own or rent. I know someone talking about selling sometime same situation but I see there neighbours for sale now lucky they didnt sell first then see the neighbours gone. With covid you should hardly be going out of the garage and the lawn will only take a few months work tolook like new once they stop parking on it. Pull the curtains so you don't see them, go outside when they are out. There are neighbours a lot worse.

ash4561 - 2021-10-21 20:25:00

I wouldn't sell untill you had somewhere to buy. Rents are to expensive. prices might go up and you can;t get anything.

ash4561 - 2021-10-21 20:33:00

sparkychap wrote:

Two questions:

Do the other neighbours own their flat?

What do you want advice on? Sorting out the neighbours or what happens if they scupper your sale?

Personally I wouldn't be discussing this on Fair Go, unless you can keep it completely confidential. If the agent knows about your key reason for selling, they have a duty to disclose that...

They do own and I've tried everything i can think of and Fair Go is my last resort. Isn't it my duty to discolse to the agent? This is my reason for posting. I've been out of work for 3 years and being unable to drive hinders my chances for work. I've been threatened, had notes on my doors and windows and other stuff,

redden39 - 2021-10-21 20:33:00

Lay low and don't react to it. Id leave the notes on the door and windows or just screw them up without reading them incase they are watching and throw them on the ground till they rot.

ash4561 - 2021-10-21 20:36:00

mazalinas wrote:

Is the fence and gate in the courtyard for safety for their grandchild using the inflatable pool? If it's an eyesore, some nice plants could improve it. Maybe speak with them nicely about keeping the driveway and access to your garage free as you'll be having open homes etc. Make friends with them if you can.

They have locked the gate which is a fire exit and isn't the point. Speak with them nicely? They are bad tempered and self entitled. He had another neighbour by the throat one time. These people have taken over the property,

redden39 - 2021-10-21 20:39:00

ash4561 wrote:

Lay low and don't react to it. Id leave the notes on the door and windows or just screw them up without reading them incase they are watching and throw them on the ground till they rot.

What I've written isn't all of it. My family have installed cameras as I've had a rock thrown through my bedroom window, a note stuck to my bedroom window and other insane stuff.

redden39 - 2021-10-21 20:48:00

ash4561 wrote:

I wouldn't sell untill you had somewhere to buy. Rents are to expensive. prices might go up and you can;t get anything.

, Yes, which is why I am information gathering. Renting is more expensive than owning.

redden39 - 2021-10-21 20:50:00

ash4561 wrote:

Unlikely you can prove or worth the cost to prove they taint the sale. Possible that citizens advice have some ideas. Can you rent your unit out and go somewhere for a while. Do the others own or rent. I know someone talking about selling sometime same situation but I see there neighbours for sale now lucky they didnt sell first then see the neighbours gone. With covid you should hardly be going out of the garage and the lawn will only take a few months work tolook like new once they stop parking on it. Pull the curtains so you don't see them, go outside when they are out. There are neighbours a lot worse.

These neighbours block access to my garage. i can't weed the drive, including under the washing line as i have been abused and threatened. Ideally, I'd present the property imaculatly but am unable even to weed the garden and drive or mow the lawn.

redden39 - 2021-10-21 20:53:00

redden39 wrote:

They have locked the gate which is a fire exit and isn't the point. Speak with them nicely? They are bad tempered and self entitled. He had another neighbour by the throat one time. These people have taken over the property,

So have you spoken to the other neighbours? Are they similarly affected? Can they help out?

sparkychap - 2021-10-21 20:58:00

sparkychap wrote:

So have you spoken to the other neighbours? Are they similarly affected? Can they help out?

I don't get to speak to the other neighbours as the time I got threatened was when I was talking to a neighbour across the courtyard. the only times I get to go outside is to leave the property after checking the cameras to see it is safe for me to do so or if I have a friend with me.

redden39 - 2021-10-21 21:03:00

redden39 wrote:

They have locked the gate which is a fire exit and isn't the point. Speak with them nicely? They are bad tempered and self entitled. He had another neighbour by the throat one time. These people have taken over the property,

Ok sounds awful. Yes, sell and move. You might lose a bit of $ if they "taint" the sale as you say but you'll gain peace of mind and safety which no doubt is worth more to you. All the best :-)

mazalinas - 2021-10-21 22:16:00

Poke a hole in the pool

lakeview3 - 2021-10-21 23:44:00

Threats are a possible police matter, depending on what they are.

If there is noise, contact noise control.

If there is an arbitration clause in your cross lease, think it would be worth talking to other neighbours to see if it worth invoking. Is there a friend who could approach them and quietly ask if they have issues, without mentioning your name? If noise issues, see if others will also lodge complaints.

Also there are community free lawyers once there are facts to place in front of them.

artemis - 2021-10-22 07:55:00

redden39 wrote:

I did not get an answer as to what can be done if my neighbours taint my sale. their visitors park on the lawn making the property look like a slum. They have also built a fence and gates in the courtyard without permission and in Summer, install an inflatable pool for their grandchild.

I've already been ripped off by a local lawyer when I tried to get help regarding the crosslease

Cars make it look like a slum?
The shocking people who put up a pool fence?
And the lawyer who didn't help? Well what could he do?

lythande1 - 2021-10-22 08:42:00

ash4561 wrote:

I wouldn't sell untill you had somewhere to buy. Rents are to expensive. prices might go up and you can;t get anything.

There is an option to sell a property "conditional on purchase". I'm doing that with mine at the moment - a sale cannot go through until I have settled on buying another property. It's quite common, apparently, for that "Vendor's Clause" to be part and parcel of a contract.

Really feel for you, OP. My neighbours are just lovely. I hope you find a way out of this towards a more peaceful life.

Edited by kitty179 at 8:45 am, Fri 22 Oct

kitty179 - 2021-10-22 08:44:00

This message was deleted.

andrew697 - 2021-10-22 08:52:00

If you can’t be seen talking to the neighbours. Do it by post write them a letter and either do it by phone or set up a zoom call.

deerhurst - 2021-10-22 09:03:00

The member deleted this message.

leson - 2021-10-22 10:05:00

Sorry for what you are going through

leson - 2021-10-22 10:07:00

mazalinas wrote:

Is the fence and gate in the courtyard for safety for their grandchild using the inflatable pool? If it's an eyesore, some nice plants could improve it. Maybe speak with them nicely about keeping the driveway and access to your garage free as you'll be having open homes etc. Make friends with them if you can.

Some people don't want to be 'friends' with their neighbours - they just want to be able to live their lives their way, regardless of the impact on those outside their own environment.

brouser3 - 2021-10-22 10:55:00

Reddens< I know where you are coming from and you obviously need some personal help. You have to read the cross lease document and understand what your rights are. There will be a mediation clause in the document and a flats /parking plan included for you to work with. I had a similar but not as bad situation and did go to a lawyer about it but before any thing needed to be done the house was was sold . What the lawyer did tell me was the fastest way to get any action was to search the title and see if there was a mortgage on the property and contact the bank say the cross lease was not being honoured and there asset was being devalued. He reckoned that did the trick.
This all sounds a bit much for you and I would suggest you find a capable third person to help you . Reach out and maybe a suitable retired person will come out of the woodwork. Neighbourly may be a place to start, also the disputes tribunal and a claim for damages may work, but you shouldn't have to live like this, also use the new magic word, your mental health. Best of luck.

hammer23 - 2021-10-22 12:08:00

redden39 wrote:

They do own and I've tried everything i can think of and Fair Go is my last resort. Isn't it my duty to discolse to the agent? This is my reason for posting. I've been out of work for 3 years and being unable to drive hinders my chances for work. I've been threatened, had notes on my doors and windows and other stuff,

Trust me it is your duty to disclose to your agent if you don't and others have problems it can come back and bite you on your arse. Taken to court

leson - 2021-10-22 12:33:00

hammer23 wrote:

Reddens< I know where you are coming from and you obviously need some personal help. You have to read the cross lease document and understand what your rights are. There will be a mediation clause in the document and a flats /parking plan included for you to work with. I had a similar but not as bad situation and did go to a lawyer about it but before any thing needed to be done the house was was sold . What the lawyer did tell me was the fastest way to get any action was to search the title and see if there was a mortgage on the property and contact the bank say the cross lease was not being honoured and there asset was being devalued. He reckoned that did the trick.
This all sounds a bit much for you and I would suggest you find a capable third person to help you . Reach out and maybe a suitable retired person will come out of the woodwork. Neighbourly may be a place to start, also the disputes tribunal and a claim for damages may work, but you shouldn't have to live like this, also use the new magic word, your mental health. Best of luck.

Great post, and great advice.

What a horrible situation to be in. I certainly think that you need to find one person who can support you through this. I feel so badly for you, as this must be a nightmare.

No one has the right to take away our peace of mind in our own home. Some people are simply just pigs, and don't give a sh*t.

You can fight this. You just have to find a way that works for you. Personally, I'd rather take a hit on the sale price, than have my mental and physical health being compromised. Easy to say I guess, but something has to give, and sadly, it will be you.

All the very best to you redden.

crafters_corner - 2021-10-22 12:39:00

crafters_corner wrote:

Great post, and great advice.

What a horrible situation to be in. I certainly think that you need to find one person who can support you through this. I feel so badly for you, as this must be a nightmare.

No one has the right to take away our peace of mind in our own home. Some people are simply just pigs, and don't give a sh*t.

You can fight this. You just have to find a way that works for you. Personally, I'd rather take a hit on the sale price, than have my mental and physical health being compromised. Easy to say I guess, but something has to give, and sadly, it will be you.

All the very best to you redden.

This.

johnston - 2021-10-22 13:55:00

Thanks for the advice. It's far worse than I wrote about but we'd be here until the last day of this message board if I dredged it all up. I just wanted to know what to expect if they make it difficult for me to sell as people tell me they won't be a problem, but considering how nasty they are, I doubt it. I can't afford to take a hit on the price as it will be a struggle to get a new property as it is.

redden39 - 2021-10-22 18:05:00

redden39 wrote:

Thanks for the advice. It's far worse than I wrote about but we'd be here until the last day of this message board if I dredged it all up. I just wanted to know what to expect if they make it difficult for me to sell as people tell me they won't be a problem, but considering how nasty they are, I doubt it. I can't afford to take a hit on the price as it will be a struggle to get a new property as it is.

I understand. You are between a rock and a hard place.

I wonder if the police are worth a go again. Trouble is for you, is that they are the owners, and not renters.

Why do people say that they won't be a problem?
Do you have to live where you live?
Can you move away.?
Rent in a town that you could afford?
Do you work?

Do you still have any of the notes that they have left you?
Is there anything that you could photograph, where the Police could get involved?

I am also wondering if you are creating a scenario that actually might not happen. You think they will cause trouble, and do things to your property, or create an environment that would make it difficult to sell, but is it possible that this might not happen.

When we are very stressed, things in our minds can get out of control, and I'm not saying that what you have said isn't true.

Maybe you could start creating a plan. If you can get your friends/family/workmates etc etc, to support you through this, you might be surprised as to how to see your way out. It's difficult on your own.

crafters_corner - 2021-10-22 18:41:00

Bite the bullet...get an agent in , discuss with the agent your issues, leave it up to the agent to decide what may/may not have to be declared... it is what it is...dont even bother trying to sort issues...avoid conflict...7 other owners will in many ways limit your liability anyways...if its making your life hell...get out... theres mental stress and theres freedom....your property might not be the hard sell you imagine... dont waste your energy on the negatives....no sense in pondering what it might get if you had better neighbours....it is what it is...think of your health and those that are close to you .... move on ....

Edited by phalanax at 8:04 pm, Fri 22 Oct

phalanax - 2021-10-22 19:53:00

Are you sure they are owners, it is not unknown for stroppy tenenats to claim to be the owner, we have experienced that.

kenw1 - 2021-10-22 21:10:00

Apart from the one dick comment, you've had some good advice here.

It seems that the only way to get the neighbours to behave would be confrontational and may not succeed. It would involve getting the neighbours involved to support you and likely the police to issue / enforce Harassment Orders. Its easy for us to tell you what to do, but its up to you to decide if you have the stomach for that.

Trying to sell is the best option. Get a few more agents round and discuss it with them and see what they advise. Deal with the "what ifs" when and if they happen.

It's a terrible situation, redden and I wish there were an easy answer for you. If you are on your own and local support, then it might be worth a visit to the Citizens Advice Centre, or Community Law in Napier and talk to them - they may be able to connect you with an advocate who will support you and advise you through the process to ensure you're not taken advantage of.

All the best redden, I really hope things work out for you.

sparkychap - 2021-10-23 07:54:00

Sell it to Housing NZ.
Then the neighbours can enjoy living with ferals as well.

pcle - 2021-10-23 09:17:00

sparkychap wrote:

Apart from the one dick comment, you've had some good advice here.

It seems that the only way to get the neighbours to behave would be confrontational and may not succeed. It would involve getting the neighbours involved to support you and likely the police to issue / enforce Harassment Orders. Its easy for us to tell you what to do, but its up to you to decide if you have the stomach for that.

Trying to sell is the best option. Get a few more agents round and discuss it with them and see what they advise. Deal with the "what ifs" when and if they happen.

It's a terrible situation, redden and I wish there were an easy answer for you. If you are on your own and local support, then it might be worth a visit to the Citizens Advice Centre, or Community Law in Napier and talk to them - they may be able to connect you with an advocate who will support you and advise you through the process to ensure you're not taken advantage of.

All the best redden, I really hope things work out for you.

Pus 1,
Redden I hope you are feeling a bit better today with the good guidance given.

hammer23 - 2021-10-23 17:04:00

Put CCTV cameras up (obviously) so they know you're watching them and you can watch them then anything that happens is recorded for the Police, council etc. Good advice above to follow. I wouldn't be selling as the hassle and loss of $$ doesn't seem worth it if you can make some progress. This is their problem and should come back on them not you losing out. Good luck with it.

trogedon - 2021-10-23 17:06:00

Wed,3rd Nov.
This post would have to be one of the saddest that I have ever seen posted on this message board and I had been hoping someone would have come back with a progress report.Time is running out on Trade Me and lets hope that some of the excellent suggestions made to Redden she is able to act on. It is easy for us to sit behind a keyboard and maybe thats all we can do, but if any one can do any thing please try, a vulnerable lady is in need of help.

Edited by hammer23 at 11:50 pm, Wed 3 Nov

hammer23 - 2021-11-03 23:48:00

I was hoping for an update too.

sweetgurl108 - 2021-11-04 20:58:00