I am looking at building a small flat under my mother's house, I am meeting builders today to discuss. If I go ahead, what do you think would be fair compensation for my mother who is mortgage free. This is a mutually beneficial thing for both of us as she is 84 years old, swears that she is not going into a rest home ever, so it will be good to be on hand when she can't cope anymore, she is very active at present. I thought a fair thing would to pay half the insurance and half the rates, half of water and power if they are shared meters. She is leaving the house to my son and I. Just after some different opinions and maybe things to think about that I haven't thought of.

thereason - 2021-08-06 08:08:00

Speak to your Lawyer.

lovelurking - 2021-08-06 08:13:00

Have you considered that should she end up in care for the last 12 years of her life for some odd reason the house (and your flat) will be sold to cover her care costs. I am not sure how you do it now but has gifting the house to you now or at least starting to do so, may be a good idea. Talk to a Lawyer about future possibilities in that regard. Also if she changed her mind and sold you could also lose the flat. Sharing costs is the least of your worries.

bryalea - 2021-08-06 08:24:00

Other than taking LL's and Bryalea's advice perhaps you could look at the garden and surrounds. If someone mowing the lawns and keeping the garden looking nice would leave more time for you to do gardening things you both might enjoy, then go halves on lawn mowing/garden tidy-ups. You both might like to keep bulbs, annuals and vegetables going together in certain parts. Halves in maintenance- though perhaps meet the maintenance in your parts.
Also ask if the lawyer can look at drafting the will to ensure that you have a home downstairs for your life or until you decide otherwise. Children as beneficiaries can do unexpected things once the property is theirs.

If you have put money into this house then you would expect to get at least this amount plus inflation to enable you to find another property should your son sell up. Some wills in older times had a requirement for a son to keep his mother in accommodation to a certain standard until she died.

Edited by shanreagh at 8:29 am, Fri 6 Aug

shanreagh - 2021-08-06 08:28:00

bryalea wrote:

Have you considered that should she end up in care for the last 12 years of her life for some odd reason the house (and your flat) will be sold to cover her care costs. I am not sure how you do it now but has gifting the house to you now or at least starting to do so, may be a good idea. Talk to a Lawyer about future possibilities in that regard. Also if she changed her mind and sold you could also lose the flat. Sharing costs is the least of your worries.

The house has been in a trust for the last 20 or so years, we are talking to the Lawyers at the moment because we want to remove the Trustee and put myself and son in her place. The Trustee is out of the country alot so would be hard to track down for signatures etc when the time comes, I didn't want that stress. Yes, I will run this pass them as well.

thereason - 2021-08-06 09:00:00

thereason wrote:

The house has been in a trust for the last 20 or so years, we are talking to the Lawyers at the moment because we want to remove the Trustee and put myself and son in her place. The Trustee is out of the country alot so would be hard to track down for signatures etc when the time comes, I didn't want that stress. Yes, I will run this pass them as well.

Check the new trust rules, also how trusts are dealt with if care is eventually needed (even if not wanted).

artemis - 2021-08-06 09:04:00

OP - Are you an only child?

desi1969 - 2021-08-06 09:20:00

desi1969 wrote:

OP - Are you an only child?

.

Yes unfortunately I am now sister passed away 5 years ago.

thereason - 2021-08-06 09:30:00

if your Mum is capable and has all her marbles dont do it. From experience a mother wont just stay in her flat......she will be at your place more often than you want... Be warned.

spead - 2021-08-06 09:31:00

thereason wrote:

.

Yes unfortunately I am now sister passed away 5 years ago.

Sorry for your loss.

Ok, so then ...

thereason wrote:

....she is 84 years old, swears that she is not going into a rest home ever,...

Yup my mother was similar. I took her into my home and cared for her for 8 years, was bloody hard going to be honest, but I don't regret doing it. Even though I cleaned up more body fluids in 1 year than I ever did as a mum to my 2 kids ;) At that age their needs can change very quickly and very unexpectedly.

BUT I was upfront and said that I wouldn't be able to care for her (nor would it be best for HER) if she were ever to become bed bound. Which she did. It was taking 2 of us to lift her and she required 24 hours assistance.

ETA for clarity - I cared for Mum for 8 years while she was mobile. So cleaning up body fluids etc, was just 'normal'. Mum went to a rest home within weeks of being bed bound.

Are you really prepared to do what it takes? AND very importantly is your son prepared? I don't know how old your son is, but at the time of starting caring for my Mum, mine were 2 and 7 - the impact on their lives was huge. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of times I said 'sorry honey I can't .... Nana needs my help' ... or they saw me cry, scream ... you name it. In the interest of full disclosure I'm also grateful they easily learned kindness and compassion, but honestly, the Mum Guilt was HUGE.

My mother then did go to a rest home and is coming up to almost 3 years there. You just don't know what the future hold, so your Mother (and you) need to plan for everything.

Just as a FYI - that 3 year resthome care has come at a cost of close to $200k.

I'm not telling you not to do it, I'm not telling you to do it .... But I will tell you that both you and your mum need to think long and hard about it, consider all options and both see a lawyer. Not the same lawyer. You need 2 different lawyers.

Edited by desi1969 at 9:42 am, Fri 6 Aug

desi1969 - 2021-08-06 09:38:00

Sorry just wanted to also add when I say Mum was 'in my home', we actually built her a granny flat, so my experience wasn't because she was in my home. We did have separate 'dwellings', whilst that made the emotional strain a little less, it didn't really make the work any less ;)

As spead eluded to at post #9 .... part of the reasons that elderly parents like their kids nearby is for that companionship, so it would be naive to think that having your own 'space' would mean you would be living the same as you are now.

desi1969 - 2021-08-06 09:53:00

spead wrote:

if your Mum is capable and has all her marbles dont do it. From experience a mother wont just stay in her flat......she will be at your place more often than you want... Be warned.

My mother isn't like that, she is very active, out all of the time, she has a boyfriend 30 years younger than herself. She won't be in the flat, I will be. She owns the house.

thereason - 2021-08-06 10:06:00

desi1969 wrote:

Yup my mother was similar. I took her into my home and cared for her for 8 years, was bloody hard going to be honest, but I don't regret doing it. Even though I cleaned up more body fluids in 1 year than I ever did as a mum to my 2 kids ;) At that age their needs can change very quickly and very unexpectedly.

BUT I was upfront and said that I wouldn't be able to care for her (nor would it be best for HER) if she were ever to become bed bound. Which she did. It was taking 2 of us to lift her and she required 24 hours assistance.

ETA for clarity - I cared for Mum for 8 years while she was mobile. So cleaning up body fluids etc, was just 'normal'. Mum went to a rest home within weeks of being bed bound.

Are you really prepared to do what it takes? AND very importantly is your son prepared? I don't know how old your son is, but at the time of starting caring for my Mum, mine were 2 and 7 - the impact on their lives was huge. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of times I said 'sorry honey I can't .... Nana needs my help' ... or they saw me cry, scream ... you name it. In the interest of full disclosure I'm also grateful they easily learned kindness and compassion, but honestly, the Mum Guilt was HUGE.

My mother then did go to a rest home and is coming up to almost 3 years there. You just don't know what the future hold, so your Mother (and you) need to plan for everything.

Just as a FYI - that 3 year resthome care has come at a cost of close to $200k.

I'm not telling you not to do it, I'm not telling you to do it .... But I will tell you that both you and your mum need to think long and hard about it, consider all options and both see a lawyer. Not the same lawyer. You need 2 different lawyers.

Thank you for the insight,, my son is 30 years old and lives elsewhere with his partner. It's more a case of, I have no where to go unless I do this. Relationship breakdown, his house, given me 3 months to find alternate accommodation, then his lawyer has advised him to change the locks when I am out. It's a long, complicated, entwined story. So I thought this would be a good option for both of us.

thereason - 2021-08-06 10:10:00

How long has she had her partner. That is where your problems will be when it comes to your mum's will.

coolnzmum - 2021-08-06 10:17:00

thereason wrote:

Thank you for the insight,, my son is 30 years old and lives elsewhere with his partner. It's more a case of, I have no where to go unless I do this. Relationship breakdown, his house, given me 3 months to find alternate accommodation, then his lawyer has advised him to change the locks when I am out. It's a long, complicated, entwined story. So I thought this would be a good option for both of us.

I'm sorry and this is going to sound harsh, but no, given what you are saying here, it's not necessarily a good option for both of you .... it's a good option for you... right now.

I'm sorry for what you are going through but this to me sounds very much like a reason NOT to do it at the moment.

Can you not just move in temporarily with Mum to get you out of an awful situation and give you time to find a flat. Then re-evaluate the whole plan when you're not doing it because you need somewhere to live.

Edited by desi1969 at 10:21 am, Fri 6 Aug

desi1969 - 2021-08-06 10:18:00

'she is not going into a rest home ever' - as stated, the time will come when probably that is inevitable.

amasser - 2021-08-06 10:37:00

thereason wrote:

Thank you for the insight,, my son is 30 years old and lives elsewhere with his partner. It's more a case of, I have no where to go unless I do this. Relationship breakdown, his house, given me 3 months to find alternate accommodation, then his lawyer has advised him to change the locks when I am out. It's a long, complicated, entwined story. So I thought this would be a good option for both of us.

build your unit, have the title changed 50% to trust, 50% to you. The fact that mum has a boyfriend much younger than her is a concern. The trust does not protect her interest from him. One would hope that mum and boyfriend have an active s21 agreement that protects her interest. The trusts assets are not part of mums estate. Be informed of the what ifs, weigh it up and do whats best for you going forward.

gabbysnana - 2021-08-06 10:42:00

She has been with the boyfriend for around 3 years now. He stays a few nights a week, yes, this has been a concern for me as well. The house is the only thing in the trust. It's all very complicated and a bit overwhelming at present, sometimes I don't understand what the lawyer is saying as well, I think we have found a good lawyer now, so will really have to nut things out. Life is pretty suckey at times!!

Edited by thereason at 10:55 am, Fri 6 Aug

thereason - 2021-08-06 10:54:00

Coolnzmum has it in one, I see problems right there. Seen it all before, no rest home, then next minute rest home or hospital care is needed. All bets are off. Good luck

msigg - 2021-08-06 12:34:00

thereason wrote:

She has been with the boyfriend for around 3 years now. He stays a few nights a week, yes, this has been a concern for me as well. The house is the only thing in the trust. It's all very complicated and a bit overwhelming at present, sometimes I don't understand what the lawyer is saying as well, I think we have found a good lawyer now, so will really have to nut things out. Life is pretty suckey at times!!

As others have said see your lawyer before doing anything. I can see numerous potential issues. If you don't understand what your lawyer is saying ask for them to explain.

None of this impossible but there is a lot to consider.

One question for now. Did your late sister have any children?

johnston - 2021-08-06 14:41:00

johnston wrote:

As others have said see your lawyer before doing anything. I can see numerous potential issues. If you don't understand what your lawyer is saying ask for them to explain.

None of this impossible but there is a lot to consider.

One question for now. Did your late sister have any children?

My sister didn't have any children, it's just my son and myself.

thereason - 2021-08-06 16:28:00

thereason wrote:

My sister didn't have any children, it's just my son and myself.

Good, one potential hurdle gone.

johnston - 2021-08-06 17:01:00

thereason wrote:

The house has been in a trust for the last 20 or so years, we are talking to the Lawyers at the moment because we want to remove the Trustee and put myself and son in her place. The Trustee is out of the country alot so would be hard to track down for signatures etc when the time comes, I didn't want that stress. Yes, I will run this pass them as well.

Good idea. This should be easily done.

Regarding your relationship. Have you sought advice concerning any claim you may have?

Edited by johnston at 5:06 pm, Fri 6 Aug

johnston - 2021-08-06 17:04:00

johnston wrote:

Good idea. This should be easily done.

Regarding your relationship. Have you sought advice concerning any claim you may have?

Yes going through it all at present, expensive and stressful.

thereason - 2021-08-06 18:26:00

thereason wrote:

Yes going through it all at present, expensive and stressful.

Don't let it get you. Let your solictor do the worrying.

johnston - 2021-08-06 18:28:00

johnston wrote:

Don't let it get you. Let your solictor do the worrying.

Easier said than done, especially when the other side is lying and being vindictive.

Edited by thereason at 10:13 am, Sat 7 Aug

thereason - 2021-08-07 10:13:00

thereason wrote:

Easier said than done, especially when the other side is lying and being vindictive.

Yes it is, but worrying yourself sick is not going to help. The law is pretty settled around these matters.

johnston - 2021-08-07 12:38:00

What do you mean, compensation???
The house is hers....so she is letting you do this building which I assume you are paying for.
Fine, so then you pay it.
Then she leave it to you later. And? I guess the point is you move in to the house, she lives in the flat? And you care for her? Or is this not the idea?

lythande1 - 2021-08-07 18:39:00

lythande1 wrote:

What do you mean, compensation???
The house is hers....so she is letting you do this building which I assume you are paying for.
Fine, so then you pay it.
Then she leave it to you later. And? I guess the point is you move in to the house, she lives in the flat? And you care for her? Or is this not the idea?

The house is being left to her son, not the op.

johnston - 2021-08-08 06:48:00

johnston wrote:

The house is being left to her son, not the op.

The house is being left half to my son and half to me.

thereason - 2021-08-08 08:11:00

johnston wrote:

The house is being left to her son, not the op.

She said "the son and I "

m16d - 2021-08-08 08:11:00

lythande1 wrote:

What do you mean, compensation???
The house is hers....so she is letting you do this building which I assume you are paying for.
Fine, so then you pay it.
Then she leave it to you later. And? I guess the point is you move in to the house, she lives in the flat? And you care for her? Or is this not the idea?

Yes, she is letting me doing the building, and yes, I am paying for it. She will be living in the house until the end, that is her home. I am in a position that I have to quickly (3 months) find somewhere to live, and that is an option. I'm wondering if paying half the bills is compensation enough, or should I pay her something for rental as well. I definitely don't want to be taking advantage of the situation.

thereason - 2021-08-08 08:14:00

thereason wrote:

Yes, she is letting me doing the building, and yes, I am paying for it. She will be living in the house until the end, that is her home. I am in a position that I have to quickly (3 months) find somewhere to live, and that is an option. I'm wondering if paying half the bills is compensation enough, or should I pay her something for rental as well. I definitely don't want to be taking advantage of the situation.

Transfer the house to you and create a life interest for mum. If your son receives a share, his share will potentially be subject to relationship and creditor claims. You could lose your house by having to sell or have to refinance.

Why don't you own the house and leave the house to him or hold his share on trust?

johnston - 2021-08-08 08:44:00