What a mess.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/bach-owners-denied-use-of-own-
property-under-tenancy-law/SCBC7KZHDTEI2KE43DR3KPMQFM/

"It has prevented landlords from taking back their property for use as a holiday home unless moving in as their primary place of residence for a minimum of 90 days.

Kylie said unsurprisingly, some landlords didn't like the idea they could not use their holiday home as a bach potentially in future.

"Lots of people may want to rent their [holiday] home out for a couple of years but they can't come back unless they need it and it becomes their place of residence for a minimum 90 days," says Kylie."

sweetgurl108 - 2021-08-05 17:27:00

Something the Ghost House squad should look at.

sweetgurl108 - 2021-08-05 17:29:00

I wonder why people leave houses vacant?
Insane tenancy laws perhaps.

pcle - 2021-08-05 17:29:00

We have a family holiday home which used to be rented apart from a break some years when family wanted to use it. For the last year or 2 it has mostly been left empty (except for family) because of the difficulties getting it back to use basically. It's a bit hard to kick tenants out for 2 weeks over xmas. Although some did arrange to not be there some years so we could use it. But generally it's not so easy.

bryalea - 2021-08-05 17:33:00

sweetgurl108 wrote:

Something the Ghost House squad should look at.

Agreed!
Far too many Ghost Houses (somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000!!), for far too long, especially in a housing crisis. That level of "land banking" shouldn't be allowed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordabili
ty/300373992/government-project-targets-ghost-houses-to-enco
urage-owners-to-fill-empty-homes

autumnwinds - 2021-08-05 17:33:00

Just introduce an empty homes tax and be done with it.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-05 17:35:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Just introduce an empty homes tax and be done with it.

Yeah, more and more taxes. That’ll fix it. Don’t forget banning too.

Edited by pcle at 5:49 pm, Thu 5 Aug

pcle - 2021-08-05 17:49:00

No ones holiday home or bach should be taxed as an empty house.

And it's stupid if they are being denied use of own property when they want to by stipulating dates it is unavailable. It's more likely it will be empty.

Edited by loose.unit8 at 5:53 pm, Thu 5 Aug

loose.unit8 - 2021-08-05 17:51:00

pcle wrote:

Yeah, more and more taxes. That’ll fix it. Don’t forget banning too.

how else do you think this country is going to afford the pensions for all the landlords?

lakeview3 - 2021-08-05 17:58:00

"Woe is me, we can't rent to tenants and then kick them whenever we choose becase we want to have a holiday."

Cry me a river. If you want to rent out your bach and still use it as a bach then rent it as holiday accommodation, not as a house.

bitsy_boffin - 2021-08-05 18:36:00

Typical of stupid legislation that doesn't take into account all consequences.
It is being made impossible for Bach owners who have tried to help the rental shortage by renting the homes to tenants other than for a few weeks. makes it easy to decide not to provide rental accomodation and just rent as a bach on short terms only.

maddie44 - 2021-08-05 19:07:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Just introduce an empty homes tax and be done with it.

Can you maybe explain how that would work?

mulch_king - 2021-08-05 20:03:00

Like, how long does a home have to be empty before the tax is applied? Who will pay for healthy homes modifications? Who gets the rent? You must have some answers, or maybe not?

mulch_king - 2021-08-05 20:04:00

pcle wrote:

I wonder why people leave houses vacant?
Insane tenancy laws perhaps.

for example ?

thornton1961 - 2021-08-05 20:08:00

maddie44 wrote:

Typical of stupid legislation that doesn't take into account all consequences.
It is being made impossible for Bach owners who have tried to help the rental shortage by renting the homes to tenants other than for a few weeks. makes it easy to decide not to provide rental accomodation and just rent as a bach on short terms only.

running your holiday place as an airBNB for 9 months a year makes it a business... not a home,.. agreed ??

thornton1961 - 2021-08-05 20:11:00

autumnwinds wrote:

Agreed!
Far too many Ghost Houses (somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000!!), for far too long, especially in a housing crisis. That level of "land banking" shouldn't be allowed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordabili
ty/300373992/government-project-targets-ghost-houses-to-enco
urage-owners-to-fill-empty-homes

where do you get your numbers from because i don't see it in that article..

Lets pick Queenstown Disterict- estimated 18000 empty houses- how many were BnBs? How many were being renovated. How many were in the process of being renovated are on the market or aren't up to current rental legislation...

The article " up to 196000" your statement 200 to 400 000... big difference and still just a guess..
Show us the research because i doubt there are that many uninhabited houses in this current market NZ wide.

scuba - 2021-08-05 20:28:00

thornton1961 wrote:

running your holiday place as an airBNB for 9 months a year makes it a business... not a home,.. agreed ??

I didn't say anything about air b&B I was talking about holiday homes being rented to tenants

The consequences will be that they may now just be left empty or be turned into airB&B. Who is the loser? The tenant who no longer has a home.

maddie44 - 2021-08-05 20:34:00

pcle wrote:

I wonder why people leave houses vacant?
Insane tenancy laws perhaps.

Some superannuants live or travel overseas for up to 6 months with many leaving their homes empty until they return.

mazalinas - 2021-08-05 20:41:00

maddie44 wrote:

I didn't say anything about air b&B I was talking about holiday homes being rented to tenants

The consequences will be that they may now just be left empty or be turned into airB&B. Who is the loser? The tenant who no longer has a home.

agreed. I have a rented property which I intend to sell and buy in another city for that new purchase to sit empty for 10 months of the year. This is exactly what the government does not want.

spead - 2021-08-05 20:50:00

pcle wrote:

I wonder why people leave houses vacant?
Insane tenancy laws perhaps.

And more talk on the new tonight about "rent control(s)" due to rising rent costs - whatever "rent control" might mean.

Nothing about all the additional compliance and tax changes that labor made that have pushed up the rents over the last 2-3 years, or the lack of labor's promised 100,000 houses that have assisted in continuing the housing shortage.

johotech - 2021-08-05 20:58:00

johotech wrote:

And more talk on the new tonight about "rent control(s)" due to rising rent costs - whatever "rent control" might mean.

Nothing about all the additional compliance and tax changes that labor made that have pushed up the rents over the last 2-3 years, or the lack of labor's promised 100,000 houses that have assisted in continuing the housing shortage.

we won’t need 100,000 houses if the empty ones have people living in them.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-05 21:02:00

scuba wrote:

where do you get your numbers from because i don't see it in that article..

Lets pick Queenstown Disterict- estimated 18000 empty houses- how many were BnBs? How many were being renovated. How many were in the process of being renovated are on the market or aren't up to current rental legislation...

The article " up to 196000" your statement 200 to 400 000... big difference and still just a guess..
Show us the research because i doubt there are that many uninhabited houses in this current market NZ wide.

Yes, I made a mistake - the estimates discussed are the other way around, from 40,000 in Auckland alone in 2018 to 200,000 just recently, but I'm sure you can Google just as easily as I can, but I happened to have a search page open from around a week ago, which I refresh daily as researching for (never you mind..), so fill your boots:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/searchresults?q=ghost+houses

Some examples:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/119636091/200k-empt
y-ghost-houses-why-and-what-would-get-them-into-the-market
and
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/104081825/op
inion-tax-ghost-houses-and-pour-the-money-back-into-affordab
le-housing

autumnwinds - 2021-08-05 21:03:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Just introduce an empty homes tax and be done with it.

Say I have an empty house. Your tax is introduced. I pay it.
How has that got someone housed?

pico42 - 2021-08-05 21:13:00

They know your house is empty if the electricity thingamejig isn't spinning around so you'll need to leave the fridge or a radio on to fool them.

mazalinas - 2021-08-05 21:21:00

mazalinas wrote:

They know your house is empty if the electricity thingamejig isn't spinning around so you'll need to leave the fridge or a radio on to fool them.

That will be great for the country's carbon emissions

loose.unit8 - 2021-08-05 21:29:00

Why stop at un-used houses, which may be empty for many legitimate reasons?
We own several vehicles, the classic only gets used at weekends and the ute needs repairs. Perhaps the classic could be useful to some hoon during the week, although 90 days notice and a TT order to get it back on Saturday might be a challenge. And the government could force me to put tyres on the ute to make that available too.

masturbidder - 2021-08-05 21:39:00

pico42 wrote:

Say I have an empty house. Your tax is introduced. I pay it.
How has that got someone housed?

maybe it can go into a fund to help first home buyers get a deposit together……you know those young people who you will no doubt be expecting to also be working and paying tax to pay for your pension when the time comes. I know I want young people to have the same chances and opportunities that I had. What kind of person would you be if you didn’t?

lakeview3 - 2021-08-05 21:42:00

mazalinas wrote:

They know your house is empty if the electricity thingamejig isn't spinning around so you'll need to leave the fridge or a radio on to fool them.

they can check your water usage as well. Furthermore they will have to make a statutory declaration that it’s either being used or not and if they are found to be deceptive then I guess there will be consequences.

Houses are for people to live in, they shouldn’t be used as a bank by older people to screw over their own children and grandchildren.

Edited by lakeview3 at 9:44 pm, Thu 5 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-05 21:44:00

lakeview3 wrote:

they can check your water usage as well. Furthermore they will have to make a statutory declaration that it’s either being used or not and if they are found to be deceptive then I guess there will be consequences.

Houses are for people to live in, they shouldn’t be used as a bank by older people to screw over their own children and grandchildren.

hahaha, screw over your own children and grandkids, lol.

They get to inherit it all or contest the will if not given to them.

And the estate has to pay their legal costs.

smallwoods - 2021-08-05 22:48:00

State control is the most inefficient way of doing anything.

masturbidder - 2021-08-05 22:52:00

The member deleted this message.

gunna-1 - 2021-08-06 05:13:00

lakeview3 wrote:

maybe it can go into a fund to help first home buyers get a deposit together……you know those young people who you will no doubt be expecting to also be working and paying tax to pay for your pension when the time comes. I know I want young people to have the same chances and opportunities that I had. What kind of person would you be if you didn’t?

Why do you continue to assume it is the seniors that own majority of the housing stock? From my experience, it is middle aged people that tend to own multiple houses.

And there is absolutely nothing stopping young people from SAVING their deposit. They already have help with the first home grant, which wasn't around when I bought my first home, and now you want another 'fund' for them?

rhys12 - 2021-08-06 05:21:00

rhys12 wrote:

Why do you continue to assume it is the seniors that own majority of the housing stock? From my experience, it is middle aged people that tend to own multiple houses.

And there is absolutely nothing stopping young people from SAVING their deposit. They already have help with the first home grant, which wasn't around when I bought my first home, and now you want another 'fund' for them?

I suggest you use this tool to work out just how skewed first home buyers chances have become….try putting in the price of your first house, your first salary etc and work it out. The house I bought in 1993 for 102,000 should technically be now only 177,000 if we use the average inflation rate. Unfortunately it’s now ‘worth’ over a million dollars.

There is absolutely NO way you can argue that housing hasn’t become so unaffordable that it’s out of most people’s reach if you understand anything about economics.

https://www.inflationtool.com/new-zealand-dollar/1993-to-pre
sent-value?amount=102000

Also:

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/homeownership-rate-lowest-in-
almost-70-years

Edited by lakeview3 at 7:36 am, Fri 6 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 07:33:00

masturbidder wrote:

State control is the most inefficient way of doing anything.

says the generation, many of whom grew up in a state house ????

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 07:36:00

Why stop at empty houses. Lots of people have spare rooms. Along the same lines, why shouldn't the government force people to fill their spare rooms as well?

loose.unit8 - 2021-08-06 07:37:00

smallwoods wrote:

hahaha, screw over your own children and grandkids, lol.

They get to inherit it all or contest the will if not given to them.

And the estate has to pay their legal costs.

so you’re one of the ‘be nice to me and I might leave you something types huh?

Nothing like spending ones whole life with the only hope of ever owning a house being dependent on your parents dying huh?

I guess I just like the fact that I was able to get on the property ladder myself without being beholden to anyone else.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 07:39:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Why stop at empty houses. Lots of people have spare rooms. Along the same lines, why shouldn't the government force people to fill their spare rooms as well?

And since people are being advised to not charge their sparkly EVs in the garage, then they can rent those out too. Empty garage tax anyone?

sparkychap - 2021-08-06 07:39:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Why stop at empty houses. Lots of people have spare rooms. Along the same lines, why shouldn't the government force people to fill their spare rooms as well?

well if they want to start somewhere they need to look at encouraging pensioners to downsize to smaller houses. I worked it out a few months back, just in my half of the street the average number of people per house is something like 1.79 and most houses are 3-5 bedrooms.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 07:41:00

The communist clowns have already imposed more and more taxes and more red tape.
So I guess that's why everything is so much better now?

pcle - 2021-08-06 07:45:00

pcle wrote:

The communist clowns have already imposed more and more taxes and more red tape.
So I guess that's why everything is so much better now?

if only John key hadn’t allowed 500,000 people to immigrate here, foreigners to buy here without living here, and let all the landlords have all those tax breaks, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of the damage was already done.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 07:47:00

This message was deleted.

andrew697 - 2021-08-06 07:54:00

lakeview3 wrote:

if only John key hadn’t allowed 500,000 people to immigrate here, foreigners to buy here without living here, and let all the landlords have all those tax breaks, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of the damage was already done.

John Key has been gone for about 5 years now. How long do you want to keep blaming him? Labour was in opposition for 9 years, now in government for 4. This has given them 13 years for planning and implementation of their plans. Nah, just keep blaming someone else.

mulch_king - 2021-08-06 08:03:00

lakeview3 wrote:

well if they want to start somewhere they need to look at encouraging pensioners to downsize to smaller houses. I worked it out a few months back, just in my half of the street the average number of people per house is something like 1.79 and most houses are 3-5 bedrooms.

It's not too long ago they started going to great lenghts to keep people in said houses. That is why it is so difficult to get into a Resthome. It used to be easier and if you were not coping at home you would be accepted into a home. Your house would be sold and everyone would be cared for and happy. Now you get "help" to stay in your home. All very well for those that want to be there but it leaves many insecure and disadvantaged elderly stuck at home. And keeps those houses off the market. And maybe they could downsize, but would you want to be moved along repeatedly. That is very stressful and would leave many not coping in new surrounds. If Rest homes were more accessible I believe there would be most housing available as a result. Once upon a time couples would be admitted when one was ill. Now that would be very unlikely to happen.

bryalea - 2021-08-06 08:08:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I suggest you use this tool to work out just how skewed first home buyers chances have become….try putting in the price of your first house, your first salary etc and work it out. The house I bought in 1993 for 102,000 should technically be now only 177,000 if we use the average inflation rate. Unfortunately it’s now ‘worth’ over a million dollars.

There is absolutely NO way you can argue that housing hasn’t become so unaffordable that it’s out of most people’s reach if you understand anything about economics.

https://www.inflationtool.com/new-zealand-dollar/1993-to-pre
sent-value?amount=102000

Also:

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/homeownership-rate-lowest-in-
almost-70-years

Some of your thinking is TOO simple.

Inflation is only ONE part of the price rise in housing costs and affordability.
So small it's not worth mentioning.
Get another fiddle to play.

smallwoods - 2021-08-06 08:31:00

bryalea wrote:

It's not too long ago they started going to great lenghts to keep people in said houses. That is why it is so difficult to get into a Resthome. It used to be easier and if you were not coping at home you would be accepted into a home. Your house would be sold and everyone would be cared for and happy. Now you get "help" to stay in your home. All very well for those that want to be there but it leaves many insecure and disadvantaged elderly stuck at home. And keeps those houses off the market. And maybe they could downsize, but would you want to be moved along repeatedly. That is very stressful and would leave many not coping in new surrounds. If Rest homes were more accessible I believe there would be most housing available as a result. Once upon a time couples would be admitted when one was ill. Now that would be very unlikely to happen.

yes you are right, this is the result of people living longer.

While I don’t wish harm or pain to anyone, it seems to me, all the resources go into the elderly and younger people are missing out.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 08:36:00

thornton1961 wrote:

running your holiday place as an airBNB for 9 months a year makes it a business... not a home,.. agreed ??

Yes. ???? ???? ???? stand alone holiday houses will be operating the business of providing short term travellers accommodation and Motels will be full of the homeless...

lovelurking - 2021-08-06 08:36:00

smallwoods wrote:

Some of your thinking is TOO simple.

Inflation is only ONE part of the price rise in housing costs and affordability.
So small it's not worth mentioning.
Get another fiddle to play.

oh stop denying reality……its FACT and it’s got nothing to do with a fiddle, more to do with the blindfolds some people insist on wearing whilst patting themselves on the back.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 08:38:00

lovelurking wrote:

Yes. ???? ???? ???? stand alone holiday houses will be operating the business of providing short term travellers accommodation and Motels will be full of the homeless...

time to register them all as businesses then and start charging them commercial rates?

lakeview3 - 2021-08-06 08:39:00

lakeview3 wrote:

so you’re one of the ‘be nice to me and I might leave you something types huh?

Nothing like spending ones whole life with the only hope of ever owning a house being dependent on your parents dying huh?

I guess I just like the fact that I was able to get on the property ladder myself without being beholden to anyone else.

Poor ol Lakey.
Got the wrong end of the stick again.
Can't see the forest, for the trees!

Kids these days can (and do) contest many wills, if they feel LEFT out.
The rulings are more in their favour now, than ever.

We have been left inheritance during our marriage and intend to pass it on to ours.
Meanwhile, the kids need to demonstrate that they are secure and not wasteful.
Eldest has settled down(married)and bought a house just over a year ago in Hamilton.
Now we have a grandson to visit.
Career, house, kids .

smallwoods - 2021-08-06 08:39:00

lakeview3 wrote:

time to register them all as businesses then and start charging them commercial rates?

Yes.QLDC did that years ago...

lovelurking - 2021-08-06 08:41:00