Hi all,

Just after some advice and direction please regarding storm water coming from next door property on to mine from the down pour on Friday night (day ago). The water is coming under the wooden fence pooling up on my side and going under my house and front deck. I shudder to think of the damage it might cause under the house.

There’s quite a bit of water and the flow has softened the grass and soil causing it to become quite muddy. I’ve taken a video and photos. Have since tried to block the water coming across with clay/ soil which has only slowed it down. Another down pour and it will only continue again.

I’ve spoken to the neighbours however they are tenants and were reluctant to provide the name of the property manager or landlord.

I’m thinking Auckland council is the next move. Do I request a site inspection to view the water flow? What should I be asking council? Is there a cost to this?

Many thanks,

lalansamm - 2021-06-20 07:58:00

Not that I am any help, but Auckland has just had an unusual extreme weather event. Is this a "normal" problem or in fact a one off.

bryalea - 2021-06-20 08:05:00

Run off is considered a natural phenomenon unless its caused by damaged storm water piping.

A land owner isn't responsible for stopping natural run off onto another property. But has there been new development that's causing this/?

Is this a new development?

Edited by sparkychap at 8:17 am, Sun 20 Jun

sparkychap - 2021-06-20 08:14:00

Thanks, good to know. Not a new development. But when it rains it does flow our way a bit. Next door is slightly elevated to us so gravity does its thing with the water coming our way. We’re left with pools of puddles until the sun dries it away. Takes a couple weeks for the sun to dry up the puddles and about a good month of no rain for the grass to become walkable again.

lalansamm - 2021-06-20 08:27:00

Water is not allowed to run on to the next property.
Had this once with a state house next door to me.
After heavy rain the water would pool up in the yard next door
And over two days would trickle down my dive.
After a battle both council and housing nz they put a drain
In there yard.
Start with the council with photos and what ever else .

rodeorunch - 2021-06-20 08:28:00

Next door was subdivided about 2-3 years ago. Ours is flat land.

lalansamm - 2021-06-20 08:28:00

rodeorunch wrote:

Water is not allowed to run on to the next property.
Had this once with a state house next door to me.
After heavy rain the water would pool up in the yard next door
And over two days would trickle down my dive.
After a battle both council and housing nz they put a drain
In there yard.
Start with the council with photos and what ever else .

Thanks, I’ll do that. How long did it take from when you contacted council to when the drain was installed?

lalansamm - 2021-06-20 08:30:00

Is it from a stormwater drain that has been directed your way or natural flow plus what they call 'casual water'?

Also different scenario if say concrete has been placed on a property that interrupts the usual/normal flow of stormwater.

It is a tricky piece of law.

PS You can also ask the Council for the name of the owners or their agents.

Edited by shanreagh at 8:44 am, Sun 20 Jun

shanreagh - 2021-06-20 08:41:00

lalansamm wrote:

Thanks, I’ll do that. How long did it take from when you contacted council to when the drain was installed?

Months .
But got it sorted in the end.

rodeorunch - 2021-06-20 09:10:00

lalansamm wrote:

Hi all,

Just after some advice and direction please regarding storm water coming from next door property on to mine from the down pour on Friday night (day ago). The water is coming under the wooden fence pooling up on my side and going under my house and front deck. I shudder to think of the damage it might cause under the house.

There’s quite a bit of water and the flow has softened the grass and soil causing it to become quite muddy. I’ve taken a video and photos. Have since tried to block the water coming across with clay/ soil which has only slowed it down. Another down pour and it will only continue again.

I’ve spoken to the neighbours however they are tenants and were reluctant to provide the name of the property manager or landlord.

I’m thinking Auckland council is the next move. Do I request a site inspection to view the water flow? What should I be asking council? Is there a cost to this?

Many thanks,

ring the council and find out the name of the property owner. Also I w0ild be asking them about the subdivision of the property and say that since this has occurred there is a flooding problem. Did they (a property owner) have to take steps to mitigate impact on neighbouring properties like a drain or alter fall of the property or install a bund?

They may have caused the flooding issue with the subdivision.

If the neighbour is unwilling to rectify, then just bring in a whole lot of soil and mound it up it and divert the water back onto their place, or install a drain to divert the water to a more acceptable place (like the street - make it the councils issue) It’s hard to comment really without seeing the situation though.

lakeview3 - 2021-06-20 09:23:00

Years ago, when looking for a place to buy, we were advised by Council that natural runoff from neighbouring properties was permitted. If we didn't like it then we had to install a drain at our expense. So we never bought a property that was lower than the neighbouring property.

If we were in your position I know exactly what my husband would do. He'd buy some drain piping and scoria, and while the ground was nice and soft, dig a trench, and fill it with scoria and the drain. By the time summer rolled round, the lawn was reinstated and looking good, no one would be any the wiser.

But I can't advise you to do that.

buzzy110 - 2021-06-20 09:55:00

Yes natural run off is OK, if the property is higher land then that will always happen, common sense. if the property has a storm water drain not hooked up then that could be a problem. Go and have a look and figure it out, it is basic. It will do no damage under your house if it is minor surface water. There is flooding and flooding, a 10 litre bucket or two is not flooding. But go have a look and figure it out. Simple.

msigg - 2021-06-20 10:18:00

buzzy110 wrote:

If we were in your position I know exactly what my husband would do. He'd buy some drain piping and scoria, and while the ground was nice and soft, dig a trench, and fill it with scoria and the drain. By the time summer rolled round, the lawn was reinstated and looking good, no one would be any the wiser.

But I can't advise you to do that.

Quick and easy to redirect like this your self assuming you have a stormwater drain you can redirect it to

deboron - 2021-06-20 10:21:00

buzzy110 wrote:

Years ago, when looking for a place to buy, we were advised by Council that natural runoff from neighbouring properties was permitted. If we didn't like it then we had to install a drain at our expense. So we never bought a property that was lower than the neighbouring property.

When we lived on a hillside in Wellington the downhill neighbour called the council about run off coming from our section. The council inspected to make sure it was natural and that we weren't directing the water their way. The neighbours were told it was for them to deal with. They could put in a drain if they wanted. Even if we wanted to help the water was coming from an area below our stormwater drains.

pauldw - 2021-06-20 12:12:00

pauldw wrote:

When we lived on a hillside in Wellington the downhill neighbour called the council about run off coming from our section. The council inspected to make sure it was natural and that we weren't directing the water their way. The neighbours were told it was for them to deal with. They could put in a drain if they wanted. Even if we wanted to help the water was coming from an area below our stormwater drains.

"Natural" run off can not include any additional hard surfaces.
So you driveway/paths, down pipes and court yard must have been up to scratch.

smallwoods - 2021-06-20 14:01:00

If next door was subdivided about 2-3 years ago there should be a geotechnical report that should include a drainage report. I am in the process of building in two situations and require a geotechnical report for both that include drainage off hard surfaces.

gamefisher - 2021-06-20 15:12:00

deboron wrote:

Quick and easy to redirect like this your self assuming you have a stormwater drain you can redirect it to

Perhaps the person you've quoted was not assuming anything, as what was stated (re drainage pipe and scoria) was exactly what any sensible person would do to deal with occasional runoff.

You dig a trench, insert a length of the black round drainage pipe (very flexible) with slits in the side for water to drain into, then back fill with sand, scoria or similar, and relay soil and lawn sods above that. you can even get a long length and loop it over several trenches on the lawn, if it's a regular issue. The large diameter acts as a soakhole for occasional extra water while keeping it off the lawn itself and has NOTHING whatever to do with council storm drain! It's just a cheapish, effective way that sensible people do to deal with occasional surface water. Anyone can do it, and very effective.

Edited by autumnwinds at 3:57 pm, Sun 20 Jun

autumnwinds - 2021-06-20 15:56:00

lalansamm wrote:

Thanks, I’ll do that. How long did it take from when you contacted council to when the drain was installed?

Council wont do anything if its the lie of the land, it will be up to you to put in subsoil drainage if you want the want to drain away quicker.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-20 16:10:00

lakeview3 wrote:

ring the council and find out the name of the property owner. Also I w0ild be asking them about the subdivision of the property and say that since this has occurred there is a flooding problem. Did they (a property owner) have to take steps to mitigate impact on neighbouring properties like a drain or alter fall of the property or install a bund?

They may have caused the flooding issue with the subdivision.

If the neighbour is unwilling to rectify, then just bring in a whole lot of soil and mound it up it and divert the water back onto their place, or install a drain to divert the water to a more acceptable place (like the street - make it the councils issue) It’s hard to comment really without seeing the situation though.

Nothing at all to do with the subdivision if its natural lie of the land, unless its piped onto your property which is illegal then you just have to suck it up and deal with it once its on your property.

How many people on here are too thick to understand water runs down hill??

mrcat1 - 2021-06-20 16:13:00

autumnwinds wrote:

Perhaps the person you've quoted was not assuming anything, as what was stated (re drainage pipe and scoria) was exactly what any sensible person would do to deal with occasional runoff.

You dig a trench, insert a length of the black round drainage pipe (very flexible) with slits in the side for water to drain into, then back fill with sand, scoria or similar, and relay soil and lawn sods above that. you can even get a long length and loop it over several trenches on the lawn, if it's a regular issue. The large diameter acts as a soakhole for occasional extra water while keeping it off the lawn itself and has NOTHING whatever to do with council storm drain! It's just a cheapish, effective way that sensible people do to deal with occasional surface water. Anyone can do it, and very effective.

Subsoil drainage is the way to go, depending where in Jafaland the OP is will depend if soak holes will work, they certainly wont work on the shore or west Auckland where its heavy clay soils.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-20 16:17:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Nothing at all to do with the subdivision if its natural lie of the land, unless its piped onto your property which is illegal then you just have to suck it up and deal with it once its on your property.

How many people on here are too thick to understand water runs down hill??

Doesn't always work like that.
Neighbour above us had a land slip event, as he hadn't put any lateral drainage in while doing earthworks.
One whole house came apart in 3 pieces.
Up shot was, house got demolished and over a $mil was spent on drainage.
Next minute we are getting excess water through our fence line.
So I built a bund and kept the water near the fence line, which travelled down to the other neighbours house (he had done a deal with top neighbour and sold off some land to him for doing the drainage)
Pretty soon got the water piped to the creek through the bottom neighbours property.

Edited by smallwoods at 5:08 pm, Sun 20 Jun

smallwoods - 2021-06-20 17:07:00

lalansamm wrote:

Hi all,

Just after some advice and direction please regarding storm water coming from next door property on to mine from the down pour on Friday night (day ago). The water is coming under the wooden fence pooling up on my side and going under my house and front deck. I shudder to think of the damage it might cause under the house.

provided it can flow under the house and out the other side, it should not cause any issue.
just check that there is no pooling.
if you have a ground moisture barrier under the house make sure its curled up at the ends and its pinned down well. water will simply flow under it and out the other end.

tweake - 2021-06-20 17:08:00

smallwoods wrote:

Doesn't always work like that.
Neighbour above us had a land slip event, as he hadn't put any lateral drainage in while doing earthworks.
One whole house came apart in 3 pieces.
Up shot was, house got demolished and over a $mil was spent on drainage.
Next minute we are getting excess water through our fence line.
So I built a bund and kept the water near the fence line, which travelled down to the other neighbours house (he had done a deal with top neighbour and sold off some land to him for doing the drainage)
Pretty soon got the water piped to the creek through the bottom neighbours property.

Great story, still doesn't change the fact that if your getting storm water due to the lay of the land then you cant do anything about it.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-20 19:48:00

buzzy110 wrote:

Years ago, when looking for a place to buy, we were advised by Council that natural runoff from neighbouring properties was permitted. If we didn't like it then we had to install a drain at our expense. So we never bought a property that was lower than the neighbouring property.

If we were in your position I know exactly what my husband would do. He'd buy some drain piping and scoria, and while the ground was nice and soft, dig a trench, and fill it with scoria and the drain. By the time summer rolled round, the lawn was reinstated and looking good, no one would be any the wiser.

But I can't advise you to do that.

OP, I would suggest you seriously consider a solution like this.
Only thing is you need to figure out a destination for the water from this drain. One of the downpipe outlet points perhaps, depending on where that goes.

pico42 - 2021-06-20 19:58:00

People have been known to landscape their gardens with raised beds and surrounding ditches so that water from uphill sections is helped on its way towards those lower down. Of course I would not recommend this.

masturbidder - 2021-06-20 22:12:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Great story, still doesn't change the fact that if your getting storm water due to the lay of the land then you cant do anything about it.

All good, as long as the neighbour HASN'T changed the "lay of the land"
Once you put hard surface or pipe work down, it is generally your problem to solve where the water goes.
If you landscape the ground, same situation.

smallwoods - 2021-06-21 08:08:00

Just dig a small trench to redirect the water from away from your house.

tygertung - 2021-06-21 13:21:00

tygertung wrote:

Just dig a small trench to redirect the water from away from your house.

i know someone who had their neighbour do that.
it pushed the water over to them, flooded their retaining wall which gave way. only recourse was law suit but the person died before it was settled.

you have to be very carful of where you direct that water.
beside water going under the house should not be a problem provided it can flow through.

tweake - 2021-06-21 16:05:00

It would only have to be about 10 centimetres deep and only alongside the house.

But surely in your friends case, the retaining wall must have been faulty?

tygertung - 2021-06-21 16:16:00

tygertung wrote:

It would only have to be about 10 centimetres deep and only alongside the house.

But surely in your friends case, the retaining wall must have been faulty?

i can't recall the exact details.
the walls only got drainage for itself, its not made for double or even triple because the neighbour pours theirs over to you.

its something you have to watch out for. you have to handle your own drainage, not pipe it or even small ditch it over to the neighbours.

you also have to watch out for erosion issues. if you divert all the water from the front of the house to one side and its all going over one small bit of ground, it can start gouging out yours and possibly neighbours land.

tweake - 2021-06-21 17:15:00

tygertung wrote:

It would only have to be about 10 centimetres deep and only alongside the house.

But surely in your friends case, the retaining wall must have been faulty?

Why must a wall design be faulty if it fails after you direct a excessive amount of water in behind it??
Effectively with water being 1kg/litre, it doesn't take much water to apply excessive surcharge onto a wall that wasn't designed for the extra loading.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-21 18:08:00

pico42 wrote:

OP, I would suggest you seriously consider a solution like this.
Only thing is you need to figure out a destination for the water from this drain. One of the downpipe outlet points perhaps, depending on where that goes.

A subsoil drain would be the best option, novaflo, scoria, geofabric, It could be piped into a downpipe but would have to go thru a sump first, or it could be run out to the road thru the kerb and dealt with that way, obviously as long as there's fall to the road.

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:14 pm, Mon 21 Jun

mrcat1 - 2021-06-21 18:11:00

smallwoods wrote:

All good, as long as the neighbour HASN'T changed the "lay of the land"
Once you put hard surface or pipe work down, it is generally your problem to solve where the water goes.
If you landscape the ground, same situation.

If the neighbouring property is above your property regardless what they do except directly pipe it onto your property, then its the natural lay of the land, water always runs downhill.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-21 18:13:00

mrcat1 wrote:

If the neighbouring property is above your property regardless what they do except directly pipe it onto your property, then its the natural lay of the land, water always runs downhill.

Not quite correct and not a hard & fast rule.. If the neighbours cover land with concrete or otherwise interrupt the free and natural flow of water then this does not apply. It all depends on how the water had arrived and whether there has been any modification ot the terrain above the land that is receiving the water.

shanreagh - 2021-06-21 19:24:00

shanreagh wrote:

Not quite correct and not a hard & fast rule.. If the neighbours cover land with concrete or otherwise interrupt the free and natural flow of water then this does not apply. It all depends on how the water had arrived and whether there has been any modification ot the terrain above the land that is receiving the water.

Simply putting in a concrete driveway is not going to change the natural lay of the land if the neighbouring property is still below the other property, water will still run downhill.
If the water is directed or concentrated to the neighbours from the driveway then that's illegal.

Edited by mrcat1 at 9:06 pm, Mon 21 Jun

mrcat1 - 2021-06-21 21:02:00

It might help if the OP looks up there property on Auckland Geo Maps and inform us if there are any overland flow paths on the property (Switch Themes ->. Assists -> Catchments and Hydrology - the theme also shows underground services and contours)).

https://geomapspublic.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/viewer/index.h
tml

ian1990 - 2021-06-21 21:19:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Simply putting in a concrete driveway is not going to change the natural lay of the land if the neighbouring property is still below the other property, water will still run downhill.
If the water is directed or concentrated to the neighbours from the driveway then that's illegal.

May not necessarily change the natural lay of the land but it increases the amount of impervious surface, and increased surface water that would otherwise naturally absorb can't be run onto the downhill property.

sparkychap - 2021-06-21 21:20:00

sparkychap wrote:

May not necessarily change the natural lay of the land but it increases the amount of impervious surface, and increased surface water that would otherwise naturally absorb can't be run onto the downhill property.

Depending where it is, BOP mightn't be so bad as some would soak in, Auckland at this time of year everything is saturated, apart from the volcanic areas that are free draining.

mrcat1 - 2021-06-21 22:12:00

autumnwinds wrote:

Perhaps the person you've quoted was not assuming anything, as what was stated (re drainage pipe and scoria) was exactly what any sensible person would do to deal with occasional runoff.

You dig a trench, insert a length of the black round drainage pipe (very flexible) with slits in the side for water to drain into, then back fill with sand, scoria or similar, and relay soil and lawn sods above that. you can even get a long length and loop it over several trenches on the lawn, if it's a regular issue. The large diameter acts as a soakhole for occasional extra water while keeping it off the lawn itself and has NOTHING whatever to do with council storm drain! It's just a cheapish, effective way that sensible people do to deal with occasional surface water. Anyone can do it, and very effective.

Yes a field drain with a Novaflow pipe to aid water collection. I think you might have to get consent for a soak hole as it can fill up and overflow so needs to be able to syphon off at high level than base to act as a silt trap. Still best to drain into you grey water system.

deboron - 2021-06-22 10:17:00

deboron wrote:

Yes a field drain with a Novaflow pipe to aid water collection. I think you might have to get consent for a soak hole as it can fill up and overflow so needs to be able to syphon off at high level than base to act as a silt trap. Still best to drain into you grey water system.

Grey water in towns goes into the sewer system, discharging storm water into a sewer system is highly illegal.
Grey water on a septic system usually bypasses the septic tank so it doesn't stir the tank up, and goes on either to the distribution chamber and then the effluent fields or it has its own separate effluent field.

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:11 pm, Tue 22 Jun

mrcat1 - 2021-06-22 18:09:00