Our son managed to buy a house a year or so ago. Its a 70's hardiplank place that is now insulated top and underneath, but not in the walls. We want to reward his hard work and not sure what would be best bang for our/his buck. Thinking of either new full length curtains (current ones are short, thin and old), double glazing the bedroom windows, or that insulation that is pumped in from the outside by drilling holes in the exterior. Anyone had any experience?
The house has a DVS/HRV system as well as 2 heat-pumps, one in the hallway and the other in the lounge.

shepa1 - 2021-05-12 21:35:00

go for the in wall insulation and decent thermal drapes. make sure any gaps in house sealed around doors etc .

fromnature - 2021-05-12 21:47:00

For my uninsulated wall place, fitting floor length heavy curtains, knocked $40 - 50 off my power bill. (also using heatpumps).
I used queen size mink blankets, as my curtains, as a nice cheap alternative to paying for something heavy enough, from curtain suppliers.
Also tried bubble wrap behind these curtains on windows one year, but did not make much extra saving, so do not bother now.
Basically i think doing whole house curtains for similar money to a one or a couple of double glaze windows installed, the curtains would win the savings race easy.
Not sure many recommend pumped insulation anymore, with it settling, having missed areas, damage to wiring if foam type etc. Maybe there are better stable and safe product's these days?
But if you can not install batts in an existing wall, without having a vapor barrier, hard to figure why you would be allowed a pumped in product either?

Edited by gpg58 at 9:56 pm, Wed 12 May

gpg58 - 2021-05-12 21:50:00

I was looking at some readimade drapes, and then getting some detachable lining. He has some medical issues and if he gets a cold runs the risk of some pretty major complications.
Wow, mink blankets as curtains! They would be pretty heavy on the curtain tracks?

shepa1 - 2021-05-12 21:57:00

shepa1 wrote:

I was looking at some readimade drapes, and then getting some detachable lining. He has some medical issues and if he gets a cold runs the risk of some pretty major complications.
Wow, mink blankets as curtains! They would be pretty heavy on the curtain tracks?

Yes, for that reason i changed all to chrome pole types(rods), so put up with not having a drawing cord.
I also change the blankets every 3 years or so, when i see enough nice ones on sale(usually when $30 each or less, - use 2 / large window).
Ps, they come in 2 weights usually 400 or 580gsm, heavier is always better, imo

Edited by gpg58 at 10:18 pm, Wed 12 May

gpg58 - 2021-05-12 22:03:00

Go for really good quality curtains with separate thermal lining. Have only heard bad things about the insulation pumped into the walls. Double glazing is great but you still have to heat the room for it to be warmer. And sorry to previous poster, but imo mink blankets would be really ugly and de value the property.

pleco - 2021-05-13 05:03:00

Heavy thermal floor to ceiling drapes would be my choice. Double glazing is good but your money doesnt go far.
DONT go for the insulation pumped into the walls.

stevo2 - 2021-05-13 05:49:00

Yea good drapes are the way to go, Is this house in the south island, gets very cold, we in auckland don't get really cold, you need to get plenty of fresh air in when the sun shines. Good luck.

msigg - 2021-05-13 07:18:00

good advice here re wall pumped insulation

captaingraham - 2021-05-13 08:57:00

pleco wrote:

Go for really good quality curtains with separate thermal lining. Have only heard bad things about the insulation pumped into the walls. Double glazing is great but you still have to heat the room for it to be warmer. And sorry to previous poster, but imo mink blankets would be really ugly and de value the property.

devalue the property? They are not trying to sell it but trying practical moves to keep it warm for winter , always can change for summer

toyboy3 - 2021-05-13 09:25:00

See page 41 at https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.54
7.7111&rep=rep1&type=pdf
He already has ceiling and underfloor insulation, and effective, efficient heating. I expect the property is already draft-proofed? So he's past Step 6 already. Next thing on the list is wall insulation (N.B. that was even with "fibreglass and regib". Pump in wall insulation is cheaper, but less effective, so hard to judge. Don't get the foam.), followed by double glazing (which is assessed as better bang for buck than drapes).

Edited by luteba at 10:27 am, Thu 13 May

luteba - 2021-05-13 10:22:00

Double glazing if he intends to stay, then do the other windows.

amasser - 2021-05-13 10:30:00

shepa1 wrote:

Our son managed to buy a house a year or so ago. . We want to reward his hard work and not sure what would be best bang for our/his buck. .

Ask him what he'd like.

lythande1 - 2021-05-13 11:45:00

shepa1 wrote:

Its a 70's hardiplank place .......... or that insulation that is pumped in from the outside by drilling holes in the exterior.

congrats for him for buying a house.

whatever you do, do not ever go putting holes through that hardiplank.
apart from possible asbestos, sealing those holes properly is difficult which makes it prone to leaking. those pumped wall insulation is not even recommended by branz anymore.

if he does a reno at some stage and pulls the gib off, then sort out house wrap /building paper and install insulation properly.

curtains is a good upgrade. however keep in mind that window condensation will get worse behind the good curtains.

tweake - 2021-05-13 11:46:00

We cut the lining off our drapes and rebacked them with quality thermals. We have 60’s thin glass. They are long and cover the walls. Works a treat.
Another tip is to use quality painters drop cloths for curtains.

travlr - 2021-05-13 11:51:00

tweake wrote:

curtains is a good upgrade. however keep in mind that window condensation will get worse behind the good curtains.

Absolutely correct, i have a window vac that i use on mine each cold morning.
To help i use a dehumidifier occasionally as well.
Or on a warm day, i put heat pumps on dry mode for a few hours.(its a cooling process, so needs to be warm or have other heating going to work well)

Edited by gpg58 at 11:58 am, Thu 13 May

gpg58 - 2021-05-13 11:58:00

I replaced the thin curtains in our home with ones from the Warehouse with the block out lining and noticed the difference in heat retention immediately.
Also noticed a huge reduction in condensation after putting the 3M insulation film up. Our ranch slider would be drenched in it, with the film it barely has any.
We use our dehumidifier weekly in our bedrooms during the winter which makes a big difference. Adds very little to the power bill.

shelleigh - 2021-05-13 12:22:00

shepa1 wrote:

Our son managed to buy a house a year or so ago. Its a 70's hardiplank place that is now insulated top and underneath, but not in the walls. We want to reward his hard work and not sure what would be best bang for our/his buck. Thinking of either new full length curtains (current ones are short, thin and old), double glazing the bedroom windows, or that insulation that is pumped in from the outside by drilling holes in the exterior. Anyone had any experience?
The house has a DVS/HRV system as well as 2 heat-pumps, one in the hallway and the other in the lounge.

Is the ceiling insulation the minimum requirement or the maximum,
I have just put a solid layer R3.6 in the ceiling on top of the batts that were installed for council requirements , now there are no gaps in the insulation

toyboy3 - 2021-05-13 12:54:00

toyboy3 wrote:

Is the ceiling insulation the minimum requirement or the maximum,

no such thing as maximum.

tweake - 2021-05-13 13:00:00

shelleigh wrote:

I replaced the thin curtains in our home with ones from the Warehouse with the block out lining and noticed the difference in heat retention immediately.
Also noticed a huge reduction in condensation after putting the 3M insulation film up. Our ranch slider would be drenched in it, with the film it barely has any.
We use our dehumidifier weekly in our bedrooms during the winter which makes a big difference. Adds very little to the power bill.

awesome

tweake - 2021-05-13 13:00:00

tweake wrote:

no such thing as maximum.

Well, there is the physical limit of the amount of space between the ceiling and the roof... :P

luteba - 2021-05-13 13:12:00

luteba wrote:

Well, there is the physical limit of the amount of space between the ceiling and the roof... :P

you can use external insulation on top of that

tweake - 2021-05-13 13:15:00

Don't get the pumped in insulation.

You could get floor length curtains but not thermal drape by itself. Possibly Ok as a detachable lining but I would get good quality heavy cotton as the curtain and back it with 2 or 3 pass blackout lining (this is not thermal drape) .

You can then make detachable linings and I have made mine (for sister in Gore) with thermal drape or heavy cotton (mine) lined both with thin, old wool blankets or bumpf. These can come off after winter. They do not need to be the full gathered width.

I would pay for all or a selection of these ideas

1 one retrofit double glazed window
2 3m film for the rest (and make it a family time when you all help put them on!)
3 set of good curtains with detachable linings for one window
4 make linings from heavy cotton and retro fit onto other curtains
5 make some detachable linings as well.
6 some securistays for some of the windows so they can be 'cracked' open a little for ventilation
7 updated rangehood
8 extractor fan or shower dome in the bathroom
9 pelmets for above the windows
10 Check that the roof insulation has the blanket that goes across the whole area covering all the beams or joists or whatever they are called..

When putting on curtain rails if you are not having pelmets then hang the rail above the window so that the curtain skims the wall before covering the window. This can help prevent draughts or loss of heat from above the curtain.

Unless you are meticulous with ventilation thermal drapes are mould nurseries. The idea with curtains is that there are many layers trapping air.

Edited by shanreagh at 2:01 pm, Thu 13 May

shanreagh - 2021-05-13 13:59:00

Double glazing all the way! (And not retrofitted.)
Install as finances permit. Will change his life.
And add a shower dome as well if he hasn’t got one.

gilligee - 2021-05-13 14:11:00

tweake wrote:

no such thing as maximum.

There must be a maximum as I have been buying people’s leftovers from their house lot

toyboy3 - 2021-05-13 14:33:00

Thanks for all the ideas. He bought 2 years ago and there was insulation in the ceiling but it has flattened down, so he got it topped up to the 'maximum' as well as getting under the house done. The shower is over the bath, so cannot get a shower dome, but he did get a good extraction fan which he and his father vented outside as a father-son project.
We are thinking some good curtains for sure and that raising the height of the tracks would be a good idea instead of pelmets. Then double glazing his bedroom window. Any company better than others in Hamilton??
We have given our daughter some money for her renovation of her home so giving him the same.

Edited by shepa1 at 3:09 pm, Thu 13 May

shepa1 - 2021-05-13 15:08:00

shepa1 wrote:

Our son managed to buy a house a year or so ago. Its a 70's hardiplank place that is now insulated top and underneath, but not in the walls. We want to reward his hard work and not sure what would be best bang for our/his buck. Thinking of either new full length curtains (current ones are short, thin and old), double glazing the bedroom windows, or that insulation that is pumped in from the outside by drilling holes in the exterior. Anyone had any experience?
The house has a DVS/HRV system as well as 2 heat-pumps, one in the hallway and the other in the lounge.

Wow! firstly, congratulations to your son.
Secondly, good on you for helping him.
Thirdly, I’d go for the best curtains you can buy...
My reason is that you will get instant heat retention and a fabulous new look that will transform the house instantly.
I’m speaking from the Deep South perspective ????

lovelurking - 2021-05-13 15:13:00

lovelurking wrote:

Wow! firstly, congratulations to your son.
Secondly, good on you for helping him.
Thirdly, I’d go for the best curtains you can buy...
My reason is that you will get instant heat retention and a fabulous new look that will transform the house instantly.
I’m speaking from the Deep South perspective ????

Yes we are very proud of him. It's not the best home in the best area in fact it's exactly the median in Hamilton. His furniture is pretty sparse and mainly hand-me-downs, but at least he's on the ladder...and it's in a much better area than our first home was!

Edited by shepa1 at 5:25 pm, Thu 13 May

shepa1 - 2021-05-13 17:22:00

Try looking at Op shop for curtains.
I bought some for $20 thermal excellent condition for my spare room
They even came with hooks.

mrsvonflik - 2021-05-14 08:55:00

As above I'd ask him, but failing that to be honest, I would probably do the whole house with really nice drapery, good lining, nice tracks/poles etc.

I think when you say 'bang for your buck' you are thinking about insulation value, but if you are looking to 'treat your son', I personally think that the drapery is nice because whilst it definitely does help with insulation etc .... it's also a decorative feature that would make the house aesthetically more pleasing, and that is possibly something that he thinks he can't afford yet .... starting to make the house a home ??? Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth :D

desi1969 - 2021-05-14 09:24:00

I agree with Desi. Good drapery is both an aesthetic and insulating improvement.
If you go down that road make sure you do floor length where practical and also don't be restricted by the height and or the width of the window. ie the curtain rod can go quite quite high above the window and also wider. This enables you to open the curtains completely clear of the windows which makes the room lighter and feel bigger, also helps with the insulating goal. Little, bitty mini skirt curtains are to be avoided at all costs.

cinderellagowns - 2021-05-14 09:54:00

Thermal curtains, just as good as double insulation, look nice and are visual to show your generosity.

gamefisher - 2021-05-14 19:21:00

I have a 'modern' home with double glazing - so technically why would I need a window covering apart from privacy issues. The house came with those drop down honeycomb blinds - and wow - yes that air pocket makes a huge difference. Now it's all about 'triple glazing' ?????? If I were on a limited budget I would get some of those relatively inexpensive drop down roller blinds (spotlight/Mitre 10 etc) which are easy to cut to the size of the window and install by folllowing the instructions inside the pack, and then hang some full length thermal drapes. Even venetians inside the window frame offer an air gap insulation and their benefit is that they can be adjusted to allow light in during the day and if you don't like the look of them you can just pull them up out of sight. Again with these you get what you pay for, but even the cheapest ones will last several years before needing to be replaced. The downside is that you really need them to be the correct size to fit the window, as you need specialist stuff to cut them down and still look good.

Edited by brouser3 at 2:24 pm, Sun 16 May

brouser3 - 2021-05-16 14:17:00

brouser3 wrote:

I have a 'modern' home with double glazing - so technically why would I need a window covering apart from privacy issues.

because nz insulation spec is below half of comparable locations overseas.

tweake - 2021-05-16 15:55:00

tweake wrote:

because nz insulation spec is below half of comparable locations overseas.

Also, because windows are still a hole in your insulation, even with double glazing. Good curtains make a difference.

apollo11 - 2021-05-16 16:46:00

apollo11 wrote:

Also, because windows are still a hole in your insulation, even with double glazing. Good curtains make a difference.

:)

tweake - 2021-05-16 16:51:00

apollo11 wrote:

Also, because windows are still a hole in your insulation, even with double glazing. Good curtains make a difference.

Good curtains are NOT single layer thermal drape as was suggested above.

Good curtains are at least two layers.

Best curtains are cotton or linen; lined with 3 pass (at least ) lining and with a detachable lining of something like bumpf or thin wool blanket. Double honey comb blinds are good inside the frame but I would always have a curtain over covering the frame.

Edited by shanreagh at 5:02 pm, Sun 16 May

shanreagh - 2021-05-16 17:01:00

There is a product made by 3M called Window Insulation. It comes in various sized kits available at M10, spare rolls of tape available separately. They sell another brand too, but the adhesive tape is rubbish. It's a thin transparent plastic which is attached to window frames by double sided tape then heat shrunk to create a tight film. It's a great alternative on a small budget to double glazing. As it's temporary (meant to be removed in spring and reinstalled every winter) it'll do the job until double glazing can be installed. I have sections which are now in their 4th year without being replaced but others where UV rays have damaged the glue.

Pelmets are much better than celing mounted tracks/rods as they stop cold airflow circulation behind the drapes. Floor length is the best length.

Check around internal window frames for draughts where they meet the walls and fill any gaps you find.

hazelnut2 - 2021-05-16 17:11:00

apollo11 wrote:

Also, because windows are still a hole in your insulation, even with double glazing. Good curtains make a difference.

Sorry, I have to disagree.

It's the metal window FRAMES which are the hole in the insulation! My metal frames have condensation behind my curtains whereas the glass remains clear.

hazelnut2 - 2021-05-16 17:13:00

shanreagh wrote:

Good curtains are NOT single layer thermal drape as was suggested above.

Good curtains are at least two layers.

Best curtains are cotton or linen; lined with 3 pass (at least ) lining and with a detachable lining of something like bumpf or thin wool blanket. Double honey comb blinds are good inside the frame but I would always have a curtain over covering the frame.

I totally agree re curtains - however they are also 'bulky' and to be quite honest would rather put another log on the fire or wear a light jersey than have the drama of furniture placement restrictions, laundering them annually (and hoping they don't get wrecked or shrink) etc.

brouser3 - 2021-05-16 19:44:00

hazelnut2 wrote:

Sorry, I have to disagree.

It's the metal window FRAMES which are the hole in the insulation! My metal frames have condensation behind my curtains whereas the glass remains clear.

https://www.building.govt.nz/building-code-compliance/h-ener
gy-efficiency/h1-energy-efficiency/building-code-requirement
s-for-house-insulation/r-values-for-common-construction-type
s/

apollo11 - 2021-05-16 19:53:00

shanreagh wrote:

Good curtains are NOT single layer thermal drape as was suggested above.

Good curtains are at least two layers.

Best curtains are cotton or linen; lined with 3 pass (at least ) lining and with a detachable lining of something like bumpf or thin wool blanket. Double honey comb blinds are good inside the frame but I would always have a curtain over covering the frame.

I wasn't commenting on what 'good curtains are or aren't', I was adding to tweake's post.

apollo11 - 2021-05-16 19:54:00

hazelnut2 wrote:

Sorry, I have to disagree.

It's the metal window FRAMES which are the hole in the insulation! My metal frames have condensation behind my curtains whereas the glass remains clear.

Forgot to add that this is what happens with my double glazed windows AND with the windows with the 3M plastic insulation film (the film remains clear). I also have curtains lined with 3pass blockout in front of both kinds of windows, for privacy and light control.

Edited by hazelnut2 at 8:23 pm, Sun 16 May

hazelnut2 - 2021-05-16 20:22:00

hazelnut2 wrote:

Forgot to add that this is what happens with my double glazed windows AND with the windows with the 3M plastic insulation film (the film remains clear). I also have curtains lined with 3pass blockout in front of both kinds of windows, for privacy and light control.

Even the highest efficiency double glazing with wood or pvc frames is a fraction of the R value of a basic insulated wall.

apollo11 - 2021-05-16 20:29:00

Although if single glazed wood is better than double glazed aluminium, why is it no longer specified? Cost?

apollo11 - 2021-05-16 20:39:00

Well I've learnt something...had never heard of 3 pass lining! Do they need to be as gathered as the curtain or can they be slightly less? I was going to use the old curtains as linings (full length but thin ready-made thermals) by chopping off the heading tape and sewing it back on the other side then clipping them onto the back of the heading tape of the new curtains.
I have the man coming to give a quote for double glazing. I know retrofitted still has condensation on the aluminium frames, but it must still be better than single pane glass!

shepa1 - 2021-05-17 00:05:00