Hi all, I'd love to dig into your collective wisdom if possible. My husband and I have just got the provisional quote from a builder (after paying for initial plans and quoting) for a 2 bed / 2 bath house that's not too fancy, but made with quite high spec insulation - just short of being passive. We expected the price to be high but we've been blown away - it's about $4000 per metre! And it seems to be similar to other quotes we're hearing.
We can technically afford it but do we want to? There's talk of a price crash coming, but isn't there always?
Do you think now is a wise time to invest in a new build, or if it were you, would you put it on hold for a few years? Any input welcome, thanks.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 09:22:00

your building a high performance home
love it !

tweake - 2021-05-02 10:06:00

Sounds high at close to $4,000 p.s.m. Are you thinking of R4.8, rather than R2.8 insulation, which is not a huge cost difference, or major specifications throughout?

amasser - 2021-05-02 10:35:00

amasser wrote:

Sounds high at close to $4,000 p.s.m. Are you thinking of R4.8, rather than R2.8 insulation, which is not a huge cost difference, or major specifications throughout?

R 5.7-8.6 SIPS panels, triple glazing with air transfer. Otherwise, nothing major in the house design to make it different from any other 2 bed/bath house.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 10:44:00

Just completed a large extension to my home, glad I did it as now material shortages (like no Resene ceiling paint in NZ!) caused a few issues late in the build. $4k seems OK to me knowing what we spent!

jeffqv - 2021-05-02 10:45:00

pie7 wrote:

R 5.7-8.6 SIPS panels, triple glazing with air transfer. Otherwise, nothing major in the house design to make it different from any other 2 bed/bath house.

i would not be using those panels.
the simple problem is low permeability. auckland is just to humid to get away with a moisture barrier on the walls. which is exactly why EIFS houses rotted out, they can't dry through the foam.

tweake - 2021-05-02 11:00:00

tweake wrote:

i would not be using those panels.
the simple problem is low permeability. auckland is just to humid to get away with a moisture barrier on the walls. which is exactly why EIFS houses rotted out, they can't dry through the foam.

This is for a South Island build.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 11:10:00

pie7 wrote:

This is for a South Island build.

thats good. a lot drier down there.

btw what did you mean by "with air transfer"?

tweake - 2021-05-02 11:41:00

tweake wrote:

thats good. a lot drier down there.

btw what did you mean by "with air transfer"?

The house is essentially thermally airtight with zero leakage. The MHRV air transfer system ensures there is fresh air in the house, and can control the heat of it.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 11:49:00

pie7 wrote:

The house is essentially thermally airtight with zero leakage. The MHRV air transfer system ensures there is fresh air in the house, and can control the heat of it.

balanced ventilation system aka heat recovery. very nice.

how are you doing the air sealing?
i see the panels are basically air tight but they still need sealing at the joins.
anything special for the penetrations?
it would be really cool to get a blower door test done and see how tight it is when finished.

tweake - 2021-05-02 11:56:00

tweake wrote:

balanced ventilation system aka heat recovery. very nice.

how are you doing the air sealing?
i see the panels are basically air tight but they still need sealing at the joins.
anything special for the penetrations?
it would be really cool to get a blower door test done and see how tight it is when finished.

They do have special door seals and the company does blower tests. We're not sold on having to be completely passive though - just want a warm, dry, quiet, decently insulated house, which I think should be standard for all Kiwis. Anyway, it does cost more to do things this way, but I'm wondering if now is a good time to commit to an expensive build, not because of affordability but potential regret if things get suddenly cheaper in a year or two! I know, I'm trying to be a fortune teller here!

pie7 - 2021-05-02 12:00:00

One your issues driving price is likely to be stock and labour shortages. Perhaps wait a year or two until logistics worldwide settles back to pre covid levels. The cost of shipping containers is 200-300% up which is seriously adding some costs to the end user.

hers.nz - 2021-05-02 12:30:00

pie7 wrote:

They do have special door seals and the company does blower tests. We're not sold on having to be completely passive though - just want a warm, dry, quiet, decently insulated house, which I think should be standard for all Kiwis. Anyway, it does cost more to do things this way, but I'm wondering if now is a good time to commit to an expensive build, not because of affordability but potential regret if things get suddenly cheaper in a year or two! I know, I'm trying to be a fortune teller here!

i'm not one for passive house, more of the high performance. hell i would settle for "normal performance" rather than kiwi performance.
air sealing can be done better than passive house easy enough. its just attention to detail.

as far as costs go, i think things will improve but not fast. i would not expect a sudden drop in prices.
i base that on supply constraints due to whats happening overseas. it will be years before covid is done with (well mostly). that has a big impact on shipping and our supply chain.
the other issue is inflation etc may drive prices up anyway.
so imho unless you can wait 5 years, i would just go ahead. even if it means just putting in a budget kitchen etc to get you by.

tweake - 2021-05-02 12:34:00

Do it now. It wont get cheaper anytime soon. If the current rate is $4k/mt and people are paying it, why would anybody drop their rates later on.

stevo2 - 2021-05-02 12:52:00

The good thing about building it now is you will have more time to enjoy your new home with all its benefits and getting the grounds established while you are young and fit will be a lot easier.

If I was doing a new build I’d go for upvc windows. We’ve just replaced old wooden windows and a glass front door with them in a very old house. (We got the privacy glass too.)
We are amazed at how much better they are than the aluminium double glazing we installed in a new build in 2004 which sadly still condensed badly.
Have fun now and don’t worry about what prices might be in the future is this old persons thoughts...

lovelurking - 2021-05-02 13:19:00

stevo2 wrote:

Do it now. It wont get cheaper anytime soon. If the current rate is $4k/mt and people are paying it, why would anybody drop their rates later on.

This.
I don't see any indication anything is going to get cheaper any time soon. $4k/m2 for what you're talking about sounds about right to me.

luteba - 2021-05-02 13:35:00

Some of the homes we build are 10k per sqm .

richynuts - 2021-05-02 13:58:00

luteba wrote:

This.
I don't see any indication anything is going to get cheaper any time soon. $4k/m2 for what you're talking about sounds about right to me.

Agreed with both above comments.
Being 2 bed, this sounds like a smaller build so will have a higher m/2 cost than a larger one. Plus the high spec features would add.

My only question would be whether you are limiting the future value by not making it a 3 beddy?

sparkychap - 2021-05-02 13:58:00

lovelurking wrote:

... while you are young and fit will be a lot easier.

If I was doing a new build I’d go for upvc windows. ...

I had to laugh at the young and fit bit. I do wish! :)
And yes, we're doing upvc windows too.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 14:17:00

I agree with you sparkychap.
The banks like to see 3 bedrooms minimum when they are lending. It is limiting your future potential buyers building only 2.
I hadn’t thought about that but it’s a valid point.

lovelurking - 2021-05-02 14:19:00

sparkychap wrote:

My only question would be whether you are limiting the future value by not making it a 3 beddy?

We've had a few people ask us this. It's interesting that in the search for a builder, we had a few saying they've been getting more and more requests for 2brms these days as well. It's a house we want to retire in, and one of the bedrooms / ensuites is a completely separate wing, so we can have it for friends and guests with complete privacy. I find that with extra rooms, we end up 'fitting' into them, but with junk! Looking forward to a downsize.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 14:19:00

Thank you all for your input so far. I really do appreciate your answers.

pie7 - 2021-05-02 14:20:00

pie7 wrote:

I had to laugh at the young and fit bit. I do wish! :)
And yes, we're doing upvc windows too.

Tehehee ???????? Good on you, enjoy your project. ????

lovelurking - 2021-05-02 14:23:00

pie7 wrote:

We've had a few people ask us this. It's interesting that in the search for a builder, we had a few saying they've been getting more and more requests for 2brms these days as well. It's a house we want to retire in, and one of the bedrooms / ensuites is a completely separate wing, so we can have it for friends and guests with complete privacy. I find that with extra rooms, we end up 'fitting' into them, but with junk! Looking forward to a downsize.

Great - I'm glad you've considered it, at least and rejected for good reasons that work for you. Good luck with the build, it sounds a great project to be building your dream retirement place - and a warm one at that!

sparkychap - 2021-05-02 14:25:00

Economies of scale...honestly, go with 3 bedroom if you can, even if the 3rd bedroom is study-sized. I love my small home but do actually regret not getting an additional bedroom. It wouldn't have cost me a lot more. And if you're spending that much on it, you may as well go for it IMHO.

cameron-albany - 2021-05-02 14:30:00

I've always thought that "it's never cheaper than now" for, well almost everything really. And with regards to 2bdrm limiting your resale, I've just spent AGES trying to buy a new, freestanding, 2brm house with land that's not an over 60s unit. I think as the population ages smaller homes will be in higher demand and more rare so any that are for sale should receive a good price. I do agree that three bedroom gets a bigger market but I think the two bedroom market will get much bigger. Build a home for you and what you need not for what someone might want in ten years when you sell it.

oakcottage - 2021-05-02 14:53:00

Friends built similar spec, larger home. Think they started out with a per sqm budget similar to that.... Think they had several overruns and it ended up costing significantly more in the end.

esprit - 2021-05-03 20:01:00

pie7 wrote:

R 5.7-8.6 SIPS panels, triple glazing with air transfer. Otherwise, nothing major in the house design to make it different from any other 2 bed/bath house.

why would you want triple glazing in the winterless north?

wine-o-clock - 2021-05-04 07:01:00

wine-o-clock wrote:

why would you want triple glazing in the winterless north?

ignore me

wine-o-clock - 2021-05-04 07:18:00

Whatever you do get:

1/thermally broken aluminium joinery (no condensation on the ali)
2/at least 1 layer of laminate safety glass in the glass unit (warm/quiet/cuts out 98% UV damage) a double glaze unit with at least 1 laminate glass may actually be better than a triple glaze of toughened glass. Price multiple options and weigh up benefits.

Also heat transfer kits great idea. We had a large house and ran 2 separate units one to each end of house. Loved. Airflow and warm distribution of heat from central fire area. We went for the more powerful unit and blocked one of the ducts off. So for a 4 room until we only powered the 3 rooms. Mainly did that because the house was longer and needed the power of the bigger unit to push it further.

All the best with the build. Sounds exciting.

lakeview3 - 2021-05-04 08:21:00

lovelurking wrote:

The good thing about building it now is you will have more time to enjoy your new home with all its benefits.

And the bad thing is the leaky homes STILL, and the crap materials they use now.

lythande1 - 2021-05-04 08:32:00

Yes. It comes down to common sense though in my opinion. I remember when butenyl roofing was the wonder product.
It didn’t take too long for the extreme temperatures in Central Otago to prove it was actually a big F for Fail...
I like iron roofing, it suits the local conditions.

lovelurking - 2021-05-04 08:59:00

lovelurking wrote:

.....
I like iron roofing, it suits the local conditions.

one thing nz has always seamed to have done well.
until recently, it seams asphalt tile look is becoming trendy. typically nz, we take a cheap budget disposable product and resell it as a high end trendy product. more leaky homes and all for the exact same reason, fashion over practicalities.

tweake - 2021-05-04 16:40:00

lovelurking wrote:

Yes. It comes down to common sense though in my opinion. I remember when butenyl roofing was the wonder product.
It didn’t take too long for the extreme temperatures in Central Otago to prove it was actually a big F for Fail...
I like iron roofing, it suits the local conditions.

love long run iron. Cant beat it. We have those silly fake iron tile looking things and if they ever need replacement then I would go long run any day of the week.

lakeview3 - 2021-05-04 17:07:00

Go for it, if you have the $$$$. Let the future worry about itself. Enjoy what you create.

norton70 - 2021-05-05 10:34:00

Agree with all those above that say it's unlikely to get cheaper, that $4k doesn't sound exorbitant etc etc and just wanted to add ....

OP you're building a home not an investment as such and reading the way you talk about it, all the research and knowledge you have invested thus far, it sounds to me like you are really keen on the idea and are just worried about a 'prudent financial' decision.

You say you can afford it, you definitely don't sound to me like someone who says that lightly (ie I'm confident if you've researched the house design to the level you have, you have also closely examined your finances, including future finances and possible changes of situation as you age ;) )

So that said I would say 'Yup, do it and enjoy your new home'.

Edited by desi1969 at 3:05 pm, Wed 5 May

desi1969 - 2021-05-05 15:04:00

I do not think that $4K is too expensive for a high spec home that will provide a comfortable and enjoyable environment. Prices for housing components are very unlikely to decrease - it is more probable they become more expensive.

geoone - 2021-05-05 16:15:00

** Building a new house is a TICK - adding to the housing stock!
**What is happening to the old house ?? forgo some of those "lovely capital gains" and price it so it is attractive to a first home buyer / young family - TICK
** These first home buyer will move out of a rental, another rental into the pool - TICK
** Someone will move up from a "grotty flat" into this rental - TICK
** Somebody will move from a temporary accom / motel into this "grotty flat" - TICK
A desirable chain of events !!

onl_148 - 2021-05-05 16:43:00

onl_148 wrote:

** Building a new house is a TICK - adding to the housing stock!
..............
A desirable chain of events !!

i'll add
Building a GOOD new house is a TICK - adding quality to the housing stock!

tweake - 2021-05-05 17:10:00

Building an Energy Efficient House is a double tick and gets a personal visit from James Shaw. TICK!

sparkychap - 2021-05-05 17:23:00

desi1969 wrote:

it sounds to me like you are really keen on the idea and are just worried about a 'prudent financial' decision.

That's pretty much it, yes. We have lots to chew on. Really appreciate the input from all of you - thank you!

pie7 - 2021-05-11 07:43:00

What an informative thread that stayed on track.

thumbs647 - 2021-05-11 08:30:00