Is waiting up to 3 weeks to get a toilet unblocked due to tree roots strangling the pipes an acceptable time (or legal) for a tenant to wait for their landlord to get it fixed? Toilet basically not useable so tenants needed to rely on public toilets for number twos!

megan109 - 2021-04-09 18:11:00

Not ok at all! What’s their justification for it taking so long?

rowlf - 2021-04-09 18:26:00

Issue the landlord with a 14 day notice to fix.

pcle - 2021-04-09 18:31:00

Probably can't afford to fix with all that tax they're now having to pay.

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 18:35:00

sparkychap wrote:

Probably can't afford to fix with all that tax they're now having to pay.

dont forget the over commitment

payntr - 2021-04-09 18:39:00

At the very least they should get a portaloo for the tenants till it's fixed.

tonijo - 2021-04-09 18:49:00

Maybe plumbers etc taking their time.
I've been waiting since Jan for a drain layer to do the storm water drain.
So far two holes have been dug, as investigation holes?

smallwoods - 2021-04-09 18:53:00

not all LLs are flush with cash

jethrocat - 2021-04-09 19:26:00

jethrocat wrote:

not all LLs are flush with cash

Toilet repairs are money down the pan.

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 19:50:00

Job been fixed but took 3 weeks

megan109 - 2021-04-09 19:57:00

sparkychap wrote:

Probably can't afford to fix with all that tax they're now having to pay.

New tax laws have not come in yet. Anyway, the drainlayer bills afterwards. And it isn't that expensive, maybe about $160.

tygertung - 2021-04-10 06:52:00

tygertung wrote:

New tax laws have not come in yet. Anyway, the drainlayer bills afterwards. And it isn't that expensive, maybe about $160.

then they’ll need to increase the weekly rent by that much at least.

sparkychap - 2021-04-10 08:12:00

sparkychap wrote:

then they’ll need to increase the weekly rent by that much at least.

Um no, say for example you have a house rented out for $400 a week, and with no deductions at all (this is worst case scenario), the tax would only be $2949.12 per year, or $56.71 a week.

So unless you are losing all your Working for Families, there would be no need for a large rent increase.

tygertung - 2021-04-10 08:27:00

tygertung wrote:

New tax laws have not come in yet. Anyway, the drainlayer bills afterwards. And it isn't that expensive, maybe about $160.

Can I have his number?
I doubt there will be any change from $1,000 for any drainage work.
Let me guess - you're never actually had to pay a tradesman?

pcle - 2021-04-10 08:43:00

tygertung wrote:

Um no, say for example you have a house rented out for $400 a week, and with no deductions at all (this is worst case scenario), the tax would only be $2949.12 per year, or $56.71 a week.

So unless you are losing all your Working for Families, there would be no need for a large rent increase.

How do you know what the tax change would be from the market rent?

sparkychap - 2021-04-10 08:44:00

tygertung wrote:

Um no, say for example you have a house rented out for $400 a week, and with no deductions at all (this is worst case scenario), the tax would only be $2949.12 per year, or $56.71 a week.

So unless you are losing all your Working for Families, there would be no need for a large rent increase.

$400 * 52 weeks = $20,800
At best 28% tax = $5,824 or $112 tax to pay per week.
At worst 39% tax = $8,112 or $156 tax to pay per week.

Looks like a really large increase to me.
So better hope for a poor landlord I guess.

pcle - 2021-04-10 08:48:00

pcle wrote:

$400 * 52 weeks = $20,800
At best 28% tax = $5,824 or $112 tax to pay per week.
At worst 39% tax = $8,112 or $156 tax to pay per week.

Looks like a really large increase to me.
So better hope for a poor landlord I guess.

How do you know what the tax increase would be from the weekly rent?

sparkychap - 2021-04-10 08:49:00

sparkychap wrote:

How do you know what the tax increase would be from the weekly rent?

If the $400pw is after deductable expenses (rates, maintenance - soon to be removed as well I bet) then company tax rate is 28% or personal up to 39%.
Or do I not understand your point?

pcle - 2021-04-10 08:56:00

pcle wrote:

$400 * 52 weeks = $20,800
At best 28% tax = $5,824 or $112 tax to pay per week.
At worst 39% tax = $8,112 or $156 tax to pay per week.

Looks like a really large increase to me.
So better hope for a poor landlord I guess.

Several property accountants have done sums for scenarios, and make the point that in order for a landlord to pay tax on revenue their income needs to be grossed up.

I wonder if people realise that the announced proposal requires 100% non-deductibility of interest from 1 October this year for non-new properties acquired after 26 March.

artemis - 2021-04-10 08:57:00

pcle wrote:

If the $400pw is after deductable expenses (rates, maintenance - soon to be removed as well I bet) then company tax rate is 28% or personal up to 39%.
Or do I not understand your point?

How much interest is the landlord currently paying to the bank and currently deducting against tax?

sparkychap - 2021-04-10 08:57:00

sparkychap wrote:

How much interest is the landlord currently paying to the bank and currently deducting against tax?

Oooh! Excellent point!
Scratch previous sarcastic remark. Better hope for rich LLs with no debt.

Edited by pcle at 9:01 am, Sat 10 Apr

pcle - 2021-04-10 09:00:00

artemis wrote:

I wonder if people realise that the announced proposal requires 100% non-deductibility of interest from 1 October this year for non-new properties acquired after 26 March.

Assuming they've read the news or bothered to read the IRD fact sheet, one would hope so.

sparkychap - 2021-04-10 09:03:00

tygertung wrote:

New tax laws have not come in yet. Anyway, the drainlayer bills afterwards. And it isn't that expensive, maybe about $160.

last person i knew to need a drain layer to fix a sanitary connection due to tree roots the bill was $5K.... and OP yes it took a few weeks.

Edited by heather902 at 9:07 am, Sat 10 Apr

heather902 - 2021-04-10 09:07:00

megan109 wrote:

Is waiting up to 3 weeks to get a toilet unblocked due to tree roots strangling the pipes an acceptable time (or legal) for a tenant to wait for their landlord to get it fixed? Toilet basically not useable so tenants needed to rely on public toilets for number twos!

Tradies are all rushed off their feet at the moment, across the board. Builders, sparkies, plumbers, joiners, painters. Around here you have to nag, wait and beg for someone to actually show up and do the job. I have heard similar in other areas.
A lot of the tradies are able to pick and choose work, and prefer to focus on new builds, extensions and other big jobs.

Edited by melagray at 9:51 am, Sat 10 Apr

melagray - 2021-04-10 09:50:00

In this situation the tenants are in social housing.

megan109 - 2021-04-10 11:22:00

megan109 wrote:

In this situation the tenants are in social housing.

Have the tenants asked their social housing provider? There may be a reasonable explanation. such as no one was willing to go to the property. The situation is far from ideal but newsflash. this sort of stuff happens to everyone now and then and we just suck it up.

heather902 - 2021-04-10 11:52:00

megan109 wrote:

In this situation the tenants are in social housing.

You can still issue them a 14 day notice. Government departments love paper work especially the stuff that affects their KPIs.

pcle - 2021-04-10 12:17:00

heather902 wrote:

Have the tenants asked their social housing provider? There may be a reasonable explanation. such as no one was willing to go to the property. The situation is far from ideal but newsflash. this sort of stuff happens to everyone now and then and we just suck it up.

job was eventually done but tenants had to go to the local service station or other public toilets for bowels

megan109 - 2021-04-10 12:30:00

heather902 wrote:

Have the tenants asked their social housing provider? There may be a reasonable explanation. such as no one was willing to go to the property. The situation is far from ideal but newsflash. this sort of stuff happens to everyone now and then and we just suck it up.

a blocked toilet is a health and safety issue

megan109 - 2021-04-10 12:31:00

The blockage was not the tenants fault. Tree roots strangling the pipes. The plumber who showed up on day one of the blockage said it was tree roots and he could not sort it out as it needed a drain layer. 3 weeks later and after numerous calls to the landlord the drain layer finally arrived. Turns out permission from the social Housing agency is needed before the toilet can be unblocked. Also reports have to be written. Health and safety issue. Tenants should not have to be with out a non functional toilet. One tenant has significant health issues and having to go to a public toilet as their loo ar home is blocked is shameful

Edited by megan109 at 12:41 pm, Sat 10 Apr

megan109 - 2021-04-10 12:37:00

megan109 wrote:

The blockage was not the tenants fault. Tree roots strangling the pipes. The plumber who showed up on day one of the blockage said it was tree roots and he could not sort it out as it needed a drain layer. 3 weeks later and after numerous calls to the landlord the drain layer finally arrived. Turns out permission from the social Housing agency is needed before the toilet can be unblocked. Also reports have to be written. Health and safety issue. Tenants should not have to be with out a non functional toilet. One tenant has significant health issues and having to go to a public toilet as their loo ar home is blocked is shameful

If it was their own property - what would they have done differently? If HNZ can't get a tradesman - what hope would a private individual?

pcle - 2021-04-10 13:16:00

megan109 wrote:

The blockage was not the tenants fault. Tree roots strangling the pipes. The plumber who showed up on day one of the blockage said it was tree roots and he could not sort it out as it needed a drain layer. 3 weeks later and after numerous calls to the landlord the drain layer finally arrived. Turns out permission from the social Housing agency is needed before the toilet can be unblocked. Also reports have to be written. Health and safety issue. Tenants should not have to be with out a non functional toilet. One tenant has significant health issues and having to go to a public toilet as their loo ar home is blocked is shameful

I don't believe that couldn't have be resolved sooner. Our pipes kept blocking post earthquakes. When they did the plumber would come, and would blow the pipes out (wasn't cheap but was the only option to immediately alleviate the issue - would happen about every 6 months).
Eventually we paid to put a camera down the pipes, to confirm the pipes were cracked due to earthquake damage (tree roots blocking flow) and made an EQC claim to get them fixed. That took a bit of time, but was eventually repaired.
A tenant should not have had to put up with that. Alternative arrangements over the 3 weeks should have been arranged at the very least.

sam447 - 2021-04-10 18:50:00

pcle wrote:

Can I have his number?
I doubt there will be any change from $1,000 for any drainage work.
Let me guess - you're never actually had to pay a tradesman?

https://www.drainworkz.co.nz/blocked-drains-christchurch/

We've had plenty of drains with tree roots. They just send down a cutter, doesn't take long.

tygertung - 2021-04-10 19:15:00

pcle wrote:

$400 * 52 weeks = $20,800
At best 28% tax = $5,824 or $112 tax to pay per week.
At worst 39% tax = $8,112 or $156 tax to pay per week.

Looks like a really large increase to me.
So better hope for a poor landlord I guess.

https://www.paye.net.nz/calculator/

Effective Tax Rate:
14.18%

$17,850.88 after tax.

Progressive tax system. Of course if the LL is already earning heaps of money, will be on a higher tax bracket.

Of course the tax bill will be lower than that as one can deduct maintenance, rates, insurance etc. So the taxable income will be lower than $400 a week.

tygertung - 2021-04-10 19:19:00

sam447 wrote:

I don't believe that couldn't have be resolved sooner. Our pipes kept blocking post earthquakes. When they did the plumber would come, and would blow the pipes out (wasn't cheap but was the only option to immediately alleviate the issue - would happen about every 6 months).
Eventually we paid to put a camera down the pipes, to confirm the pipes were cracked due to earthquake damage (tree roots blocking flow) and made an EQC claim to get them fixed. That took a bit of time, but was eventually repaired.
A tenant should not have had to put up with that. Alternative arrangements over the 3 weeks should have been arranged at the very least.

unfortunately this happened with a social Housing provider.they could have installed a port a loo but this would cost money so no chance. Unfortunately approval had to be given even though the tenants told the housing provider that they were having to access public toilets. Shocking really

Edited by megan109 at 8:09 pm, Sat 10 Apr

megan109 - 2021-04-10 20:08:00

megan109 wrote:

unfortunately this happened with a social Housing provider.they could have installed a port a loo but this would cost money so no chance. Unfortunately approval had to be given even though the tenants told the housing provider that they were having to access public toilets. Shocking really

I am sure you could ask for 3 week rent reduction in writing as it's a major inconvenience. Imagine if you would have to use the restroom in the middle of the night? Would it help if you wrote to LL making a list of your inconveniences in the past 3 weeks and asking for a future 3 week rent reduction of say, 40%? If they refuse, it's a real indication as to where this tenancy is heading. LL remarks re public conveniences is self explanatory, really...

Edited by evoalg at 3:00 pm, Tue 13 Apr

evoalg - 2021-04-13 14:59:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-04-13 16:25:00

Gee there has been some pretty rough maths being put about with ref to the new rules of no tax deduction on mortgage interest payable..
At first I thought that LL were just grizzling for the sake of it about the tax deduction matter, but if you look at a simple example you can see the problem..
If at the moment the LL is paying $100 a week by way of mortgage interest then they currently have to collect, by way of rent $100, and pass that over to the bank.. But with the new rules the LL will have to collect APPROX $150 in rent, give $50 of it to the IRD and the remaining $100 to the bank..

onl_148 - 2021-04-13 16:46:00

Just a huge big tax for the tenants to pay. So fair and kind.

pcle - 2021-04-13 17:14:00

OP: Megan, not sure who you are in this scenario(Tenant, neighbour, advocate, Concerned friend, petrol station attendant) But come to us sooner as someone on here may be able to give you more timely advice.????????????????

thumbs647 - 2021-04-13 17:32:00

thumbs647 wrote:

OP: Megan, not sure who you are in this scenario(Tenant, neighbour, advocate, Concerned friend, petrol station attendant) But come to us sooner as someone on here may be able to give you more timely advice.????????????????

a tree root hugger?

evoalg - 2021-04-13 17:46:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-04-13 18:03:00

That is outrageous! the LL should have contacted a plumber within the hour of being informed the loo was blocked, and kept you informed if any issues with delays.
its not a big ask for LL's to get drains maintained for preventing tree root intrusion. .
Having said that in the past I had a piece of work tenant who kept putting baby wipes down the loo despite being warned by me and the plumber not to as they cause blockages. By the third call out I told her if the wipes caused the next one I would be billing her for the cost of the plumber, never happened again :)

upfront1 - 2021-04-19 01:05:00

upfront1 wrote:

That is outrageous! the LL should have contacted a plumber within the hour of being informed the loo was blocked, and kept you informed if any issues with delays.
its not a big ask for LL's to get drains maintained for preventing tree root intrusion. .
Having said that in the past I had a piece of work tenant who kept putting baby wipes down the loo despite being warned by me and the plumber not to as they cause blockages. By the third call out I told her if the wipes caused the next one I would be billing her for the cost of the plumber, never happened again :)

the landlord was Housing new Zealand and before the loo could be unblocked a lot of paper work had to be done plus authority to do the job had to be confirmed by Housing new Zealand staff before the drain layers could even do the job.as you can imagine this takes a long time dealing with bureaucratic processes while the tenants were.having to visit public toilets while decisions were being made. Unfortunately no concern for the tenants wellbeing and also no concern for health and safety for the tenants..just disgraceful

megan109 - 2021-04-20 14:23:00

thumbs647 wrote:

OP: Megan, not sure who you are in this scenario(Tenant, neighbour, advocate, Concerned friend, petrol station attendant) But come to us sooner as someone on here may be able to give you more timely advice.????????????????

thanks for that. The tenants did repeatedly ring Housing new Zealand regarding the blocked loo and said they had to use public toilets for number 2. The call takes were sympathetic but unfortunately it is the more senior staff that make a lot of decisions regarding what maintenance is going to be done and if it will be done. In this case it is a health and safety issue but waiting nearly 3weeks is unacceptable..it was tree roots so the tenants had not blocked the loo

megan109 - 2021-04-20 14:28:00

kittycatkin wrote:

I am not being facetious, but thank goodness they have a public loo near enough to use ! What were they supposed to do - dig a hole in the garden? Use a bucket ?

Couldn't a chemical loo have been supplied, the indoor kind that caravans have ?[/quote they could have gone in the garden but would have been spotted by neighbors and people walking past the house.

megan109 - 2021-04-20 14:31:00

The tenants were also informed that they may have to pay for the unblocking of the loo depending on if they caused the blockage. They did not and the drain layer said it was not the fault of the tenants but the tree roots. The tenants are very careful with the loo. No babies so no nappies, no wet wipes and no sanitary items, only loo paper and body waste

megan109 - 2021-04-20 14:35:00