Who would what to live here now:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124259501/worst-ive-seen-in
-20-years-hospitality-workers-grapple-with-crime-in-central-
city

What could go wrong, let all the crims out of jail to roam a city center and not expect things to go peer shaped.

If innocent people are getting the bash, something seriously has gone wrong with law and order!

Edited by ian1990 at 9:38 pm, Tue 23 Feb

ian1990 - 2021-02-23 21:36:00

Gang members, methamphetamine users, unsupported deportees from Australia, etc., all dumped by MSD in emergency hotels in the CBD in ALL of our cities is a recipe for disaster. Easy access to alcohol and other drugs amping up the already bored and angry to fight amongst themselves and others. Why oh why have these places in the inner city and so many in each hotel?

mazalinas - 2021-02-23 21:57:00

....

Edited by ian1990 at 11:47 pm, Tue 23 Feb

ian1990 - 2021-02-23 23:41:00

Yes walking along Manners Street near Pigeon Park is ghastly/scary day or night. Big increase in the numbers of rough sleepers congregating there as well and their belongings are left around the Opera House doors and behind the north bound bus-stop. There are several buildings in the Opera House/former James Smith corner precinct that are used to house gang members.

There is something wrong with the maths/concept when one Govt dept (MSD) acts in a way that incurs increased expense in the costs of another (Police).

Patrolling to prevent often violent street offences in large numbers diverts police away from other offences taking place in other parts of the city.

shanreagh - 2021-02-23 23:47:00

They have to be living centrally so they can easily get to their day jobs.

There are security guards posted at some on those Wellington CBD apartment buildings.

artemis - 2021-02-24 08:36:00

How about the MSD impose a policy that you cant have emergency housing unless you have a 40hr week job. Shouldn't be too hard for MSD to give them a meaningful job.
As an aside I've been taking note of how a lot of the street beggars arrive and leave their pet sites each day. There is one local "scruff" you travels in a 2018 BMW X3. Unemployed? Broke? Homeless? Doubt it!

supernova2 - 2021-02-25 11:49:00

supernova2 wrote:

How about the MSD impose a policy that you cant have emergency housing unless you have a 40hr week job. Shouldn't be too hard for MSD to give them a meaningful job.
As an aside I've been taking note of how a lot of the street beggars arrive and leave their pet sites each day. There is one local "scruff" you travels in a 2018 BMW X3. Unemployed? Broke? Homeless? Doubt it!

You really haven't thought that through, have you!

melcraig - 2021-02-25 12:30:00

It’s like skid row in many city CBD areas now.

My husband knows a guy who has been in jail and he’s a pretty tough guy (turned his life around) and he told my husband DO NOT go to town after dark and said even he wouldn’t go.

Same applies in Wellington, I know someone who was mugged there just over a year ago, the cops got their identity because they used a stolen card to buy petrol shortly after, got them on CCTV but couldn’t convict because they didn’t get them on cctv doing the assault.

I predicted this would happen years ago. Marginalise people and they get desperate. Where are all these people going to live once tourists come back? Tents most probably, like LA.

And STILL the govt does nothing to meaningfully address the housing CRISIS . Yes it’s a CRISIS. These people are broken, addicted, lazy jobless people with nothing to lose so they rob people and make everyone’s else’s lives hell. I don’t see a way back from this mess. All started when Roger Douglas took away these people’s parents and grandparents jobs in his ruinous reforms. It made everything about money instead of realising the value of having your population employed and about them having the dignity and mana of providing for their families. Makes me so angry to see what we have become as a country.

Throwing more benefits at it WILL NOT fix the problem. People need education, jobs and the knowledge they will NOT get something for nothing.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-25 18:18:00

supernova2 wrote:

How about the MSD impose a policy that you cant have emergency housing unless you have a 40hr week job. Shouldn't be too hard for MSD to give them a meaningful job.
As an aside I've been taking note of how a lot of the street beggars arrive and leave their pet sites each day. There is one local "scruff" you travels in a 2018 BMW X3. Unemployed? Broke? Homeless? Doubt it!

take the number plate and report him then if you think it’s dodgy.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-25 19:03:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-02-25 19:16:00

kittycatkin wrote:

You always know someone who....and predicted that...

I find it hard to believe that someone can't be convicted of assault because the assault wasn't on camera. Hardly anyone would be convicted in that case. It's not the police who convict people, anyway; it's the courts.

The statement about Sir Roger is meaningless unless you know that he 'took away' the jobs done by the parents and grandparents of these people, and you can't know that. He cut out a lot of dead wood from the railways & other places; people coasting along for life doing very little. Odd as it might seem, a country needs money in order to survive. His reforms made the SOEs efficient and profitable; it's hard to believe that this happened in a Labour government.

dead wood eh......yeah he took away the MOW, the post office jobs, the forestry and railways and then those people had nothing to do so we gave them the dole and left them to deal with the consequences or having no reason to get up every day, drown their sorrows in addiction. what he failed to recognise was the VALUE in having people DO something for their money. It ruined New Zealand.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:17 pm, Thu 25 Feb

lakeview3 - 2021-02-25 20:16:00

As for your comments ‘you always know someone’.....you crack me up......do you seriously think I make things up???

You sound like you have lived quite the sheltered life.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-25 20:19:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I predicted this would happen years ago. Marginalise people and they get desperate. Where are all these people going to live once tourists come back? Tents most probably, like LA.

And STILL the govt does nothing to meaningfully address the housing CRISIS . Yes it’s a CRISIS. These people are broken, addicted, lazy jobless people with nothing to lose so they rob people and make everyone’s else’s lives hell. I don’t see a way back from this mess. All started when Roger Douglas took away these people’s parents and grandparents jobs in his ruinous reforms. It made everything about money instead of realising the value of having your population employed and about them having the dignity and mana of providing for their families. Makes me so angry to see what we have become as a country.

Throwing more benefits at it WILL NOT fix the problem. People need education, jobs and the knowledge they will NOT get something for nothing.

I don't believe that, I have been helping helping a family in North Thailand who what could be called marginalized more than anything in NZ, what planet are you living on if you are making excuses for marginalized people to rob someone.

Edited by ian1990 at 12:31 am, Fri 26 Feb

ian1990 - 2021-02-26 00:28:00

lakeview3 wrote:

As for your comments ‘you always know someone’.....you crack me up......do you seriously think I make things up???

You sound like you have lived quite the sheltered life.

.. best delete that one

Edited by ian1990 at 1:01 am, Fri 26 Feb

ian1990 - 2021-02-26 00:56:00

ian1990 wrote:

I don't believe that, I have been helping helping a family in North Thailand who what could be called marginalized more than anything in NZ, what planet are you living on if you are making excuses for marginalized people to rob someone.

i am not excusing anyone. Just saying why it happened and I am not comparing it to another country. We all know the laws are quite different in other countries (does Thailand still habe the death penalty????)

Facts are facts, many of our CBDs are now inhabited with people who are living in what were previously motels and hotels. Many would otherwise be homeless because of their addictions and behaviour. Many of our ‘homeless’ who are living in our local ones, aren’t even locals, they have come from as far afield as gisborne. If you don’t want to ‘believe it’ then that’s up to you. ‘
Interesting you are helping a family from another country, why not help a family here instead?

lakeview3 - 2021-02-26 06:58:00

Gee... where have I been ? this term / expression "wokester/s" is a new one to me, but according to Simon Bridges the police commissioner is one !!
Simon has been name calling of the "head fuzz".. which could misfire if some one broke into Simons office and stole his comic books, and then he was wanting the police to drop everything and invesitigate.

onl_148 - 2021-02-26 11:39:00

onl_148 wrote:

Gee... where have I been ? this term / expression "wokester/s" is a new one to me, but according to Simon Bridges the police commissioner is one !!
Simon has been name calling of the "head fuzz".. which could misfire if some one broke into Simons office and stole his comic books, and then he was wanting the police to drop everything and invesitigate.

Simon's right. He's a Labour tow-the-party-line man, check out his mental gymnastics in the article where he tried to justify supporting the illegal iwi checkpoints

Edited by loose.unit8 at 1:27 pm, Fri 26 Feb

loose.unit8 - 2021-02-26 13:25:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-02-26 13:30:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-02-26 13:35:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-02-26 13:47:00

Wellington has become a real cespit of crime, drugs and gangs. I have lived in Wellington for quite a while and haven't seen gangs in inner city Wellington since the early 90's, now there are plenty of them a and there seems to a murder every second weekend (Te Papa, Karori etc) That kind of stuff never used to happen in Wellington.

fxx99 - 2021-02-26 13:48:00

kittycatkin wrote:

You know nothing about my life, so please don't make statements about it based on nothing.

I have lived in several countries, have read widely and known many politicians, so have hardly lived a 'sheltered life'.I lost my husband to cancer; this doesn't happen to people who have sheltered lives.

My life is none of your business.

If you constantly make claims that you know/have seen/have done (whatever or whoever it happens to be) you must expect that people will greet these with a degree of scepticism. I am not the only one who has expressed this.

and you know nothing of my life or the people i am related to, interact with and the experiences I have had. So would YOU please desist from accusing me of lying when I write of my experiences on here. They are no less valid than what you write.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-26 13:59:00

fxx99 wrote:

Wellington has become a real cespit of crime, drugs and gangs. I have lived in Wellington for quite a while and haven't seen gangs in inner city Wellington since the early 90's, now there are plenty of them a and there seems to a murder every second weekend (Te Papa, Karori etc) That kind of stuff never used to happen in Wellington.

oh no apparently we are just making that stuff up......most of it doesn’t even get to the news....

lakeview3 - 2021-02-26 14:05:00

At some point MSD will stop paying for emergency accommodation either force people to flat in homes that MSD owns or rents. Then they will either force people to share their social housing if they have extra bedrooms or accepted a bedroom tax similar to the UK.

Can't go on like this forever.

sweetgurl108 - 2021-02-26 16:24:00

sweetgurl108 wrote:

At some point MSD will stop paying for emergency accommodation either force people to flat in homes that MSD owns or rents. Then they will either force people to share their social housing if they have extra bedrooms or accepted a bedroom tax similar to the UK.

Can't go on like this forever.

i was wondering the same thing, but I genuinely can’t see a way out of this now. These people can barely function, many of them have addiction issues and criminal records. We have literally bred these people with decades of social welfare.

We need a whole societal shift where people learn to take responsibility, learn to work for their money, and not have children unless they intend to do a proper job of raising them.

Throwing money at them just gives them more money for drugs and alcohol.

There may be the odd exception but they are few and far between.

We as a country need to make some uncomfortable and harsh decisions and the crew that are running the show at the moment aren’t the ones to do it.

Go search up Thomas Sowell. He knows what’s what. Here’s one of his famous quotes:

‘Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good’

lakeview3 - 2021-02-26 16:37:00

I'm saddened to hear Wellington has turned into this. The handful of times I've visited it was this cool, artsy city where you could walk everywhere. It beats Auckland in every single category with the possible exception of weather.

v_shark - 2021-02-26 21:24:00

v_shark wrote:

I'm saddened to hear Wellington has turned into this. The handful of times I've visited it was this cool, artsy city where you could walk everywhere. It beats Auckland in every single category with the possible exception of weather.

it’s sad alright, and it’s the same in my hometown. I know what all the issues are, I have said them a million times. The politicians don’t care, no matter what they keep saying. Giving people more money won’t fix it.

We need solutions, housing solutions, and for the homeless people who are still retrievable to be able to claw their lives and dignity back with JOBS so they get some pride and a purpose back.

Edited by lakeview3 at 9:43 pm, Fri 26 Feb

lakeview3 - 2021-02-26 21:43:00

v_shark wrote:

I'm saddened to hear Wellington has turned into this. The handful of times I've visited it was this cool, artsy city where you could walk everywhere. It beats Auckland in every single category with the possible exception of weather.

it still does - don’t let the doom merchants put you off.

sparkychap - 2021-02-26 21:52:00

v_shark wrote:

I'm saddened to hear Wellington has turned into this. The handful of times I've visited it was this cool, artsy city where you could walk everywhere. It beats Auckland in every single category with the possible exception of weather.

It still is.

blands70 - 2021-02-26 22:27:00

Nothing can top the big grey sparkplug

funkydunky - 2021-02-27 10:55:00

funkydunky wrote:

Nothing can top the big grey sparkplug

A spark plug lead would top it with a coil at the end of it....

trogedon - 2021-03-03 19:35:00

A fracas has broken out in Parliament over Green Party MP Marama Davidson​ accusing National’s Nicola Willis​ of sharing “racist and classist" concern about her own safety in Wellington.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124585071/national
-mp-nicola-willis-confronts-green-mp-marama-davidson-over-ra
cist-accusation

Wow Nicola Willis expresses concern for her own safety in Wellington and Marama Davidson calls her racist and classist.

That’s a low blow Marama to throw another female under the bus in a situation like that.

I know a man who was mugged in Wellington cbd just over a year ago. Imagine what could happen to a woman????

lakeview3 - 2021-03-18 19:04:00

Bump

When MP Marama Davidson​ is asked for details, New Zealand fascist party play the race card to shut discussion

But instead of answering a further question, her press secretary said: “Thanks, guys – that’s enough.”

We get

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124585071/national
-mp-nicola-willis-confronts-green-mp-marama-davidson-over-ra
cist-accusation

ian1990 - 2021-03-19 22:39:00

ian1990 wrote:

Bump

When MP Marama Davidson​ is asked for details, New Zealand fascist party play the race card to shut discussion

But instead of answering a further question, her press secretary said: “Thanks, guys – that’s enough.”

We get

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124585071/national
-mp-nicola-willis-confronts-green-mp-marama-davidson-over-ra
cist-accusation

looks like she’s been outed for doing no work either. Honestly I am so angry about her throwing another woman under the bus who had the guts to say she felt unsafe. Well I don’t know Marama maybe you don’t get hassled by men and some other women do. Either way, to try and invalidate someone who felt unsafe is frankly just disgusting. Shame on her.

lakeview3 - 2021-03-19 23:13:00

lakeview3 wrote:

i was wondering the same thing, but I genuinely can’t see a way out of this now. These people can barely function, many of them have addiction issues and criminal records. We have literally bred these people with decades of social welfare.

I have worked with "these people" as you put it and a surprising amount have degrees, want to work and references. You are making assumptions based on your own belief system - that's not a good basis to come up with solutions.

There are problems in the design of the system (welfare, housing, health, taxation) that create a forced dependency. As a matter of fact the Hikoi for Disabled being held at Parliament this Tuesday will raise many of those issues. It's sad that rather than consult the community or model effects of legislation/policies that a massive effort has to go into a protest like this to show politicians the problems that they themselves or their predecessors have created.

sweetgurl108 - 2021-03-20 12:07:00

We're paying $250K pa plus lifetime perks for this twit.
Marvellous.

Edited by pcle at 12:58 pm, Sat 20 Mar

pcle - 2021-03-20 12:58:00

sweetgurl108 wrote:

I have worked with "these people" as you put it and a surprising amount have degrees, want to work and references. You are making assumptions based on your own belief system - that's not a good basis to come up with solutions.

There are problems in the design of the system (welfare, housing, health, taxation) that create a forced dependency. As a matter of fact the Hikoi for Disabled being held at Parliament this Tuesday will raise many of those issues. It's sad that rather than consult the community or model effects of legislation/policies that a massive effort has to go into a protest like this to show politicians the problems that they themselves or their predecessors have created.

I met a homeless person this week, they have a qualification but currently unable to work due to medical issues. However there are a large majority of homeless as I said above who have addiction and other issues. We see them all the time. My husband talks to them as he works in the CBD. That’s how you find out what’s really going on. If you have seen my other posts, I am not blaming these people necessarily for being homeless. Ypu will see that I wind the blame back to rogernomics. I saw exactly what that did to communities around here. So if we want to point the finger to where it all started. Look no further. When you take away people’s dignity to work and provide for their families, you take away their mana. Then their kids grow up watching that and it all becomes embedded. I am so sad this is what has happened to our country. I consider myself lucky to have seen what it used to be. These people we are seeing now, are the ones who got turfed out of the state homes under the P guise, then they went to their cars, or someone’s garage, or portacabin, and now they literally have nothing left. And when people have nothing to lose, well they start to not care anymore about what they do. Breaks my heart.

So I fully am on board with what you are saying.

Oh and the politicians? They know EXACTLY a how to fix it. They just don’t care because they are having their strings pulled by other countries, lobbyists and the 1%. They could do something, but they won’t. If they were going to do something, it would already be done by now as this problem isn’t new.

Edited by lakeview3 at 2:43 pm, Sat 20 Mar

lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 14:41:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Simon's right. He's a Labour tow-the-party-line man, check out his mental gymnastics in the article where he tried to justify supporting the illegal iwi checkpoints

This clanger seems to have slipped under the radar.....

As I live in Soimon's electorate, could someone please tell me when Bridges became a "Labour tow-the-party-line man", and why he still does the National tow-the-party-line thing, complete with pout? I think we should be told......

(Sorry, LU, you always have my respect but this has cracked me up!)

autumnwinds - 2021-03-20 16:09:00

pcle wrote:

We're paying $250K pa plus lifetime perks for this twit.
Marvellous.

Those so called Life Time Perks, have Gone....for MPs... only a PM gets any so called perks, and not for a Life Time either..

shortee2 - 2021-03-28 15:29:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Ypu will see that I wind the blame back to rogernomics.

Rogernomics was brutal and threw a lot of people under the bus. But it was an attempt to make NZ competitive internationally after decades of government largesse and a protectionist/ unionist economy. So it was really excessive socialist policy that got us there. I have a family member (on the wife's side, lol) who has never worked a day in her life. She popped out five strapping kids (the father would drive down from Northland to 'do the deed') and has been on a DPB all of that time. Now all the kids but one are following the same pattern.
I worked in a factory that had a core of heavily unionised workers who did their damnedest to get the place to fail. The old timers wanted the redundancy payments written into their old contracts paid out. Eventually they succeeded and the factory closed down. The sales arm just kept going, importing similar stuff from China.

apollo11 - 2021-03-28 15:48:00

apollo11 wrote:

Rogernomics was brutal and threw a lot of people under the bus. But it was an attempt to make NZ competitive internationally after decades of government largesse and a protectionist/ unionist economy. So it was really excessive socialist policy that got us there. I have a family member (on the wife's side, lol) who has never worked a day in her life. She popped out five strapping kids (the father would drive down from Northland to 'do the deed') and has been on a DPB all of that time. Now all the kids but one are following the same pattern.
I worked in a factory that had a core of heavily unionised workers who did their damnedest to get the place to fail. The old timers wanted the redundancy payments written into their old contracts paid out. Eventually they succeeded and the factory closed down. The sales arm just kept going, importing similar stuff from China.

yes I know, it certainly wasn’t perfect but at least people had jobs, better than being on the dole. Dad used to call the ministry of works the ministry of sherks, but hey at least the roads actually lasted. I worked part time in a hotel while at school and I got paid quite well because of the union. No complaints. People could support their families on those wages.

I also have a family member who has never worked. Funny because they are very religious and I can only think they must have had to tell a lot of lies to have lived the life they have lived. Makes me pretty angry really. And then they make comments about us being better off than them. I mean I wonder why?

lakeview3 - 2021-03-28 18:08:00

What if there were more government industries which built railways (could put in new lines) and factories building bicycles, and fur coats out of possums?

The government could also employ people to go out and trap possums and rabbits for making coats and vests etc.

Wouldn't matter if it didn't make very much money or even a loss as would be cheaper than paying for the dole.

Could be good to employ villains out of jail too, as it could be hard to get work if you've just been imprisoned.

There could also be a government industry building rectangular houses which could be built in a yard and transported to the final location after building has finished.

What if there was a government department of cycle paths? Could employee people out of work to put in cycle paths to ease the congestion.

tygertung - 2021-03-29 06:16:00

Governments can barely run themselves, and you want them to run businesses?

apollo11 - 2021-03-29 08:37:00

Anything private enterprise can do for a $1 the Government can mess up and fail to do for $100.
Even NASA have worked this out. Now just pay private enterprise to build and launch for them.

pcle - 2021-03-29 10:02:00

The business could be semi-seperate, a sort of state owned enterprise, but a bit more socialist.

I think socialist means care about our society.

tygertung - 2021-03-29 11:52:00

tygertung wrote:

The business could be semi-seperate, a sort of state owned enterprise, but a bit more socialist.

I think socialist means care about our society.

Socialist means 'equality of outcome'. Capitalist is 'equality of opportunity'.
Unfortunately here I think we have 'crony capitalism' with socialist flavouring.

Socialism means that no matter how hard you work, you will get no more than the person who works the least. And as proven again and again, a ruling class asserts itself and dominates the proles.
Socialism works well in small communities, ie in a kibbutz- like structure. But it's an awful way to run a country.

apollo11 - 2021-03-29 12:02:00

I think you are getting socialism mixed up with communism. I think socialism means that the state will try to look after the population with healthcare, education etc.

In the USA the state is not very socialist, so no free healthcare, and education is very expensive.

tygertung - 2021-03-29 13:24:00

tygertung wrote:

I think you are getting socialism mixed up with communism. I think socialism means that the state will try to look after the population with healthcare, education etc.

In the USA the state is not very socialist, so no free healthcare, and education is very expensive.

most of the people bagging socialism have hugely benefited from it in the way of state houses, tertiary education, healthcare all the hospitals and other infrastructure built during the 50s and 60s. Got to love hypocrites.

At least I am honest when I say yes I have benefited. Got free uni and lived in a state house for the first 5 years of my life. I benefited because my father spent his whole childhood in a state house, his University education at 2 unis and his job, health and retirement all govt funded. Yes we have benefited and we are grateful, unlike these people who took all that and then moaned about socialism later.

lakeview3 - 2021-03-29 13:33:00

socialism doesn't work. Sure there are some things people like to attribute to socialism, but the fact is its a bandaid to problems, it never works, people exploit it to the point it fails, and the problem by then are far worse.
If you'd like to argue the point, name a successful socialist country.
Heres a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
They are either totalitarian states, or are verging on bankrupcy.

Also having infrastructure is not socialism.

Edited by bitsnpieces2020 at 10:35 am, Wed 31 Mar

bitsnpieces2020 - 2021-03-31 10:34:00

NZ is a socialist country, so is UK and Sweden for example.

tygertung - 2021-03-31 10:46:00