I believe I am being unduly harassed by the 'President of the Body Corporate' where I rent. Fact I live in fear now of seeing his presence at the Units. It is enough I have an ineffectual 'property manager' whom refuses to take on owners with regard's them replacing non working electrical items. And when I speak with regards to them regards to this, the last time I got a "giggle" and was told by them that they knew it was correct and they needed to be replaced. And yes I have contacted the tenancy tribunal and they agreed with my complainants, and said they could be put under notice to fix or replace.
I don't want to have to go into battles like this, but now the costs of 1st going to a laundry weekly are over a weeks rental in total, and I have had to buy cooking equipment in order to be able to just cook food at my unit. (I could I guess just buy takeaways but not in my budget ). While being told '0ff' (yes at 65) by the Body Corp President some months back because I had placed "landlords faulty electrical appliance's outside my back door " The very same Body Corp President told me, "stop paying the rent, that will get the matter sorted". I was lucky I had a friend visiting that has been a Landlady and she replied "no not legal". So that was that from then on he has caused me grief and anxiety, through his continued harassment of things. Today it was, because I have a sack barrow sitting there with a 20 kg of potting mix on it. I explained it was actually for loan to 'one of his tenants' currently away till Monday. I got "well move it, it's untidy"! Then went on to say "I don't want people to ring me saying your Unit is lowering the tone of the Place"! I actually had enough today to reply, and said " I doubt that would happen". And when I have to look at peoples washing hanging over balconies in other "owned unit's" I didn't feel anyone would say anything about my things. I actually don't know where my nerve came from, probably because I don't want anything against me as a tenant. My last 2 rental's have been 4 & 5 yrs but I am only into my 7 months of my 12 month lease here. I rented my unit because I was told it was quiet and that the tenants on both sides would be here/there for life even be tem rentals. No after a non related incident the next door man on one side has moved on And the President brought his unit so I am now faced with him owning next door. The place has become a private nightmare for me to live in, as one is never sure when he will arrive.
Worse I have found should I be able to break my lease a more suitable private place but it is through the same real-estate agency, but another branch and I am scared to even ask regarding this property. All I want is a long term rental in a quite place.
Any useful idea's on what I should do would be wonderful.

anne1955 - 2021-01-17 19:05:00

Oh Anne, just awful for you. I'm so sorry. There are a number of issues here but as I understand it, one of those issues is that electrical items in the house have failed since you signed your tenancy agreement?

seaqueen - 2021-01-17 19:23:00

seaqueen wrote:

Oh Anne, just awful for you. I'm so sorry. There are a number of issues here but as I understand it, one of those issues is that electrical items in the house have failed since you signed your tenancy agreement?

Yes and as I said my / the property manager just giggled when I said I had sort advice on this from the tenancy tribunal and they said "if they where in property when rented, no matter if the agent and landlord said if anything broke down it would not be replaced. And after the giggle was "yes we know that". And still nothing and actually now the Body Corp bloke is more than I can handle. He is not popular at all but like so many committees, no one else will take on the job so he stay's put And no one will stand up and be counted to back anyone else up. Making me sick really.

anne1955 - 2021-01-17 19:34:00

I'm somewhat confused - if the cooking apparatus is in the apartment, how is that the responsibility of the BC?

sparkychap - 2021-01-17 19:36:00

Consider moving out.

megan109 - 2021-01-17 20:09:00

Tell the guy to back off or you will have him trespassed. He obviously thinks he can bully you and has nothing better to do all day. (the worst types IMO)

lakeview3 - 2021-01-17 20:57:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Tell the guy to back off or you will have him trespassed. He obviously thinks he can bully you and has nothing better to do all day. (the worst types IMO)

How far do you think he can back off? He lives next-door.

pauldw - 2021-01-17 21:09:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Tell the guy to back off or you will have him trespassed. He obviously thinks he can bully you and has nothing better to do all day. (the worst types IMO)

If they are the BC chair of a set of units / apartments, then a trespass may be irrelevant, as he will have a lawful right to be there.

Civil harassment order is a possibility, but would require the OP to apply to the courts.

sparkychap - 2021-01-17 21:10:00

Send a 14 day notice for the items that are faulty to the PM, copying in the Owner (and make sure the PM knows that's what you've done).

https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/maintenance-and-inspections/repa
irs-and-damages/

Edited by sparkychap at 9:18 pm, Sun 17 Jan

sparkychap - 2021-01-17 21:14:00

sparkychap wrote:

If they are the BC chair of a set of units / apartments, then a trespass may be irrelevant, as he will have a lawful right to be there.

Civil harassment order is a possibility, but would require the OP to apply to the courts.

he does not have a right to harass anyone. There will be some sort of constitution document that lays out the body corporate rules, the OP should get a copy of that so she understands it fully and also tell the guy to back off (whether that he by trespassing him from her ‘space’ or as you suggest some civil order. If I were her I would also document the days/times/reasons hes has interacted with her and put this in writing to the other representatives/directors of the body corporate. If he is behaving inappropriately then it might be good to bring this to the attention of others. Personally I think body corporates are a nightmare.

Imagine this:

Think about the street you live in. Think about the people who live in that street. Put a gate on the end of the street and make it all under control of a body corporate which is made up from some members of the street......trust me there is next level crazy when you suddenly realise people you thought were nice/intelligent turned out to be just a bunch of unreasonable nit picky hypocritical loons! ????

lakeview3 - 2021-01-17 22:55:00

Let me add on to the end of my post above :

With nothing to do all day! And worse still is when you give them the title ‘president’ or ‘director’ they suddenly think they are more important than everyone else! ????

lakeview3 - 2021-01-17 23:32:00

lakeview3 wrote:

he does not have a right to harass anyone. There will be some sort of constitution document that lays out the body corporate rules, the OP should get a copy of that so she understands it fully and also tell the guy to back off (whether that he by trespassing him from her ‘space’ or as you suggest some civil order. If I were her I would also document the days/times/reasons hes has interacted with her and put this in writing to the other representatives/directors of the body corporate. If he is behaving inappropriately then it might be good to bring this to the attention of others. Personally I think body corporates are a nightmare.

Imagine this:

Think about the street you live in. Think about the people who live in that street. Put a gate on the end of the street and make it all under control of a body corporate which is made up from some members of the street......trust me there is next level crazy when you suddenly realise people you thought were nice/intelligent turned out to be just a bunch of unreasonable nit picky hypocritical loons! ????

The difference though is that unlike your street example, all unit owners knew prior to purchasing there was a BC and agreed they would abide by the BC Rules. A tenant also agrees to abide by the BC Rules.

Edited by johnston at 6:56 am, Mon 18 Jan

johnston - 2021-01-18 06:55:00

Putting the landlords stuffed equipment outside in the public area or even just in public view would wind up the Apartment Manager regardless of whether he was involved in the bodycorp...imagine if all the tenants did that.
(As an official part of the bodycorp he will be constantly harassed as he’s already explained by other owners and residents to keep the complex immaculate, it’s a lot like herding cats!)

Make sure you always obey the bodycorp rules, say hello politely to your new neighbour/ unit owner and take your fight directly to the landlord if his representative is ignoring you would be my best advice.

Good luck

lovelurking - 2021-01-18 07:42:00

The BC Manager issue is a red herring here. As LL mentioned above, its possible that all he's doing is enforcing the rules. I missed the bit about the OP dumping rubbish in a public area - not surprising he's on her case.

The real issue is with the owner and PM, who appear to be refusing to replace the cooking and laundry equipment supplied as part of the tenancy.

As I mentioned earlier, issue a 14 day notice to get this all on record. if the PM/Owners refuse to comply apply to the TT for a work order to enforce.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 07:55:00

johnston wrote:

The difference though is that unlike your street example, all unit owners knew prior to purchasing there was a BC and agreed they would abide by the BC Rules. A tenant also agrees to abide by the BC Rules.

I love the smell of a flawed analogy in the morning.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 07:56:00

johnston wrote:

The difference though is that unlike your street example, all unit owners knew prior to purchasing there was a BC and agreed they would abide by the BC Rules. A tenant also agrees to abide by the BC Rules.

yes that’s right they did all know, what they didn’t know though, is although the BC rules seem fair and reasonable, many others in the BC still have other ideas or haven’t fully read the document or have and just do their own thing anyway.

I doubt any tenant has even been shown the BC rules. I would be interested to know if OP has seen them.

Either way body corporates are a nightmare. Avoid at all costs.

My example of the street was simply so you could imagine how difficult it is to get a random group of people together and get them to all agree with each other or abide by an extra set of rules over and above normal council ones. To see some of them power tripping over the title of ‘president’ or ‘director’ is quite hilarious.

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:15:00

sparkychap wrote:

I love the smell of a flawed analogy in the morning.

or you completely missed my point in it.

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:16:00

lakeview3 wrote:

or you completely missed my point in it.

There was a point? Maybe I dozed off. But the analogy fails as in your example, the rules get imposed on people unilaterally. In reality people have the right to read the BC rules and agree to abide with them before entering the tenancy or buying there.

Anyway, this is all noise. You're making a load of assumptions that the BC manager is the problem here. Maybe his view is that he's dealing with a difficult tenant that has dumped rubbish in a public area to the determinant of other owners / tenants.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 08:22:00

sparkychap wrote:

There was a point? Maybe I dozed off. But the analogy fails as in your example, the rules get imposed on people unilaterally. In reality people have the right to read the BC rules and agree to abide with them before entering the tenancy or buying there.

Anyway, this is all noise. You're making a load of assumptions that the BC manager is the problem here. Maybe his view is that he's dealing with a difficult tenant that has dumped rubbish in a public area to the determinant of other owners / tenants.

if you could see past your bias to my posts you would understand what I was saying. These are the ‘characters’ ypu are dealing with in a real life situation. They aren’t all like minded or of the same educational background. Some, think they are better than others, some are serial busy bodies, some have nothing better to do than police other people. Some have no business experience, some have never worked and some simply have no understanding of what a legal document is.

I have lived in a body corporate system and trust me, people have seen the rules, read them, and still do their own thing. Who is going to force people to obey/enforce them? Bring in the heavies? Take it to court? It’s the stuff of nightmares and I strongly advise anyone I ever come across to avoid like the plague.

What’s the bet OP has never seen the BC rules.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:35 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:29:00

lakeview3 wrote:

if you could see past your bias to my posts you would understand what I was saying. I have lived in a body corporate system and trust me, people have seen the rules, read them, and still do their own thing. Who is going to force people to obey/enforce them? Bring in the heavies? Take it to court?

What’s the bet OP has never seen the BC rules.

No bias, I also know how BCs operate and have also seen bad BC managers. But the OP had every right to ask for a copy before accepting the tenancy. After all she accepted to abide by those rules.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 08:34:00

sparkychap wrote:

The BC Manager issue is a red herring here. As LL mentioned above, its possible that all he's doing is enforcing the rules. I missed the bit about the OP dumping rubbish in a public area - not surprising he's on her case.

The real issue is with the owner and PM, who appear to be refusing to replace the cooking and laundry equipment supplied as part of the tenancy.

As I mentioned earlier, issue a 14 day notice to get this all on record. if the PM/Owners refuse to comply apply to the TT for a work order to enforce.

This ^^^.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 08:35:00

sparkychap wrote:

No bias, I also know how BCs operate and have also seen bad BC managers. But the OP had every right to ask for a copy before accepting the tenancy. After all she accepted to abide by those rules.

I have no doubt you do know how they operate. But have you ever lived under one and attended meetings or helped run one as a director? That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Oh and if you haven’t, word of advice, AVOID.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:41 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:37:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I have no doubt you do know how they operate. But have you ever lived under one and attended meetings or helped run one as a director? That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Oh and if you haven’t, word of advise, AVOID.

No I haven't as I'm not stupid enough to get involved in one. I'll leave that to others.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 08:44:00

sparkychap wrote:

No I haven't as I'm not stupid enough to get involved in one. I'll leave that to others.

good to know. I am pleased I learnt a lesson. Mostly about people actually. I used to naively think most people are reasonable. Not so.

Sometimes we need to make mistakes to learn. These experiences can end up serving us well later on.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:47 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:46:00

But go on sparky just imagine your street and having to operate a body corporate with all those people in it. Can you imagine the nightmare?

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:48:00

Body corporates are like the hotel California- you can check out but you can never leave!

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:54:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I have no doubt you do know how they operate. But have you ever lived under one and attended meetings or helped run one as a director? That’s a whole different kettle of fish. Oh and if you haven’t, word of advice, AVOID.

Well I agree with sparkychap, and have been a BC chair for couple of decades, and contributed to National's review process to update BC regs.

artemis - 2021-01-18 08:54:00

OP should just tell the president to contact the owner of her unit if there are any problems. That might get the stuff fixed.

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:55:00

artemis wrote:

Well I agree with sparkychap, and have been a BC chair for couple of decades, and contributed to National's review process to update BC regs.

and what did that involve? Have they made improvements? And since when? Just curious, interested to know.

BTW I am happy to be out of the loop and out of touch......never want to touch one with a 10 foot barge pole EVER again.

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 08:58:00

lakeview3 wrote:

OP should just tell the president to contact the owner of her unit if there are any problems. That might get the stuff fixed.

Why would the president get involved - it's not his issue.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 08:59:00

sparkychap wrote:

Why would the president get involved - it's not his issue.

well he should leave the OP alone then if that’s the case

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 09:00:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Body corporates are like the hotel California- you can check out but you can never leave!

You can sell or otherwise transfer your intertest.

Don't worry, I have more than my share of BC horror stories but I don't believe any owner can cite ignorance nowadays.

johnston - 2021-01-18 09:01:00

National's Bill did not proceed due to election timing. Current government said they will do something. We shall see. Plenty of information available online.

artemis - 2021-01-18 09:01:00

lakeview3 wrote:

well he should leave the OP alone then if that’s the case

Probably would if the tenant obeyed the rules.

johnston - 2021-01-18 09:01:00

lakeview3 wrote:

well he should leave the OP alone then if that’s the case

OP shouldn't have broken the rules. OP thinks he's harassing her, whereas he may just be enforcing the rules having had multiple complaints over her dumping rubbish on the common area.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 09:04:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Body corporates are like the hotel California- you can check out but you can never leave!

Yes you can. You can sell, you can leave. Seriously. Another flawed analogy.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 09:05:00

johnston wrote:

Probably would if the tenant obeyed the rules.

or the owner of her unit did or her property manager had a clue or if she knew what the rules are. Or the nosy Parker mr clipboard president might have been a gentleman and offered to help her. Instead she is frightened of him. I mean who would even want to go out wondering if he was there going to pounce on her with his clipboard?

If I was her I would get out of the whole thing. Cut her losses. Lesson learnt. No one needs that sort of stress in their life, especially a woman living alone .

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 09:06:00

sparkychap wrote:

Yes you can. You can sell, you can leave. Seriously. Another flawed analogy.

oh sure you can sell, just takes a bit longer to find another naive punter......

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 09:07:00

artemis wrote:

National's Bill did not proceed due to election timing. Current government said they will do something. We shall see. Plenty of information available online.

so what were the major changes that you were looking at implementing?

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 09:08:00

lakeview3 wrote:

oh sure you can sell, just takes a bit longer to find another naive punter......

But you can, so not like the Hotel California at all.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 09:10:00

sparkychap wrote:

But you can, so not like the Hotel California at all.

but it flipping well feels like it though!

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 09:11:00

lakeview3 wrote:

but it flipping well feels like it though!

Then you have my sympathy as it's a terrible song.

sparkychap - 2021-01-18 09:27:00

Morning People Yes I have read Body Corp Rules I was given then with lease but only after arriving. And that said no pets, There are 5 cats living here with their owners. That common land common land can not be enclosed of likes 3 people have enclosed their yards stopping people actually being able to walk around grounds. (I have know problems there) or with the no pets BUT being told re pets first I had to rehome my 13 yr old cat and to find so many here was sad to say least. General noise and interfering with peoples quality of life. I also read yesterday re my obligations. I think Chairman probably wants to buy the unit Ok assumption but it will give him 4th in block I know of. . I said from day 1 that if he had any problems with me he should contact Letting agent or owner. He hasn't and he won't actually tell me if in fact anyone has actually complained about me. Keeps say "I just don't want people ring me at home". There is a very different set of rules for owners that life here against us renters here. I did make comment yesterday about washing hanger over balconies I didn't bother saying the ones used as Air B's and what ever the right term is, hang their drying in out in places that can be seen by all. I don't do that as it's in Body Corp rules. Lawns and common grounds are to be maintained by Body Corp yet myself another 2 tenants and a couple of owners did them a week or so ago as a working bee as they where so bad. A owner even placed pictures and like on FB And suddenly the gardener appeared the next day. But was here approx. 30 mins as we had done so much. We have had 3 gardeners in 8mths I have been here. The weed sprayer type, the to damn lazy type, and now the never see type we have now. So as far as buying into a Body Corp I wouldn't even go there either. And the other thing I didn't say was that over Xmas when he (chairman) had 'friends' staying that the male of these made very unpleasant unneeded sexual remarks. Look with regard to this I could go on a lot more but really non related to the "now problems". I am going to attempt to see or talk to letting agent today she does great "avoidance as well" And tell her what is going on. My main problem is not wanting a bad feedback/reference within the Real Estate company as the do most of rentals in the area and surrounds. And actually love area. As for getting others here behind me they all say Yes,Yes then run off and won't do diddly as he seems to intimidate them all even though most aren't fussed with him. (he has a number of nick names here, including The Fat Controller, And Mr Trump. And these are owners not just tenants. To clarify the Chairman doesn't live here but just shows up and stay's in his enclosed with gates unit...

anne1955 - 2021-01-18 09:50:00

Yes anne1955. I TOTALLY get it. As I said in my earlier post everyone reads the rules and then ignores them anyway. Hypocrites.

I would leave myself. Not worth the drama.

Or if he approaches you again tell him you will abide by the rules when he makes the other residents also abide by them (re the enclosures and cats). Tell him that he is harassing you and if he continues to do so you will take out a restraining order on him- print this out and stick it in his letter box.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1997/0092/latest/
DLM417753.html

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1997/0092/latest/
whole.html#DLM417753

As for the sexual innuendo from his friends, just gross. Sadly what a lot of us women have to put up with. (But you could also include that in the general harassment)

Stay strong, stand up to him, he’s a bully, he knows it and if you stand up to him hopefully he will back off. If not then leave. Seriously it’s not worth the stress of dealing with ***** like him.

Edited by lakeview3 at 10:18 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 10:06:00

Also don’t rely on other residents to back you up. I have learnt in these situations that actually most people are cowards and are spineless. Happy to b1**h behind closed doors but when push comes to shove - crickets.

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 10:11:00

Are air bnbs covered by the body corporate constitution/rules ???? I bet not.

If not then why are they allowed to operate?

Edited by lakeview3 at 10:13 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 10:13:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Are air bnbs covered by the body corporate constitution/rules ???? I bet not.

If not then why are they allowed to operate?

Yes I do laugh about that As it does state in Rules "No business is to be operated from premises" or words to that effect/affect lol never get that one correct. I am still play catch me if you can with letting agent'. I have composed a letter for her that I will drop into their office just down the road. Yes getting out of this lease is high on my list of things, As much as anything I am no longer feeling safe here. (As for 'the fat controller', I could make other comments and not about his weight lol but height related sadly) And I know I shouldn't but a wee tad venting makes one feel a little better.
A guy got tossed out of his rental for running a Computer Fix it business from it.
I assume that the 'lady of the evening' got kicked out of unit for her business as well. And as I live I "that" unit when I first arrived snide remark was made too my buy another owner here, and that was suitably upsetting, but I let that go as I was told the person was lets say less than pleasant, and his 'going ones' with other females had cost him 2 cleaning staff, paid for by the Govt ' one might add. So I have avoided him like a does of... Anyway I'll get this letter written and to Real Estate Company.. I m beginning to think that "prospective tenants should have a bunch of questions that need to be signed as read by letting agents" and could include things like Occupation of last renter, Has anyone within the complex had criminal convictions and if so what? And more I had to get a police clearance for a volunteer job in a Museum. And yes I do know why this wouldn't work the housing shortage for one. And I am not saying people with criminal convictions shouldn't should have equal opportunities or likes So please people don't attack me for remark. I have a 30 plus yr old one And I still disclose even though it doesn't show on printouts.

anne1955 - 2021-01-18 11:00:00

anne1955 wrote:

Yes I do laugh about that As it does state in Rules "No business is to be operated from premises" or words to that effect/affect lol never get that one correct. I am still play catch me if you can with letting agent'. I have composed a letter for her that I will drop into their office just down the road. Yes getting out of this lease is high on my list of things, As much as anything I am no longer feeling safe here. (As for 'the fat controller', I could make other comments and not about his weight lol but height related sadly) And I know I shouldn't but a wee tad venting makes one feel a little better.
A guy got tossed out of his rental for running a Computer Fix it business from it.
I assume that the 'lady of the evening' got kicked out of unit for her business as well. And as I live I "that" unit when I first arrived snide remark was made too my buy another owner here, and that was suitably upsetting, but I let that go as I was told the person was lets say less than pleasant, and his 'going ones' with other females had cost him 2 cleaning staff, paid for by the Govt ' one might add. So I have avoided him like a does of... Anyway I'll get this letter written and to Real Estate Company.. I m beginning to think that "prospective tenants should have a bunch of questions that need to be signed as read by letting agents" and could include things like Occupation of last renter, Has anyone within the complex had criminal convictions and if so what? And more I had to get a police clearance for a volunteer job in a Museum. And yes I do know why this wouldn't work the housing shortage for one. And I am not saying people with criminal convictions shouldn't should have equal opportunities or likes So please people don't attack me for remark. I have a 30 plus yr old one And I still disclose even though it doesn't show on printouts.

good on you Anne. I am imagining your ‘fat controller’ lol a garden gnome springs to mind, or is he suffering from SMD? (I will let you work that one out ????). Every body corporate has a ‘mr clipboard’ who seems to be wearing blinkers. The one I was in, the ‘mr clipboard’ even bought one of those mallets along to a meeting to bang on the desk! Sat up there like he thought he was a Supreme Court judge. OMG I nearly fell off my chair laughing! Turned out in the end he was one of the biggest hypocrites of all and had even failed to collect body corporate fees from one resident for over 2 years! What a laugh!

Anyhoo, you don’t let him intimidate you. If he approaches you again, ignore him and go inside.

Stay strong ????

Oh and what’s an air bnb if it isn’t a business????

Edited by lakeview3 at 11:27 am, Mon 18 Jan

lakeview3 - 2021-01-18 11:26:00

The wording does matter though - if the property is let as a "whole house" on AirBnB they're not technically running a business _from_ the property, any more than you're running a business from the property if it's rented to people long-term.

luteba - 2021-01-18 11:56:00

Do you want things to change or do you want sympathy and a place to vent?

sw20 - 2021-01-18 12:35:00