Scenario is a friend had a REA friend/acquaintance ring her and ask if she was interested in selling her house, REA has gone thru and given her an appraisal and a estimated value etc.
The REA then asked to bring some people thru and she said yes, that was ok, but to this point no agency agreement has been signed, I commented that shouldn't have happened until agreement done.
Thoughts??
TIA.

Edited by mrcat1 at 7:35 pm, Sat 9 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-09 19:34:00

The agent is acting unlawfully. No doubt whatsoever.

johnston - 2021-01-09 22:38:00

Friend should nicely thank the REA for arranging a private sale for them, and tell them to pay any deposit into their (the vendors) lawyer's trust account ASAP.

Or, ask for an agency agreement NOW with no marketing costs, 50% of standard fees, and fees and costs paid only on settlement.

If that does not work, contact the agency principal and report to their (vendors) lawyers.

tony9 - 2021-01-10 08:15:00

tony9 wrote:

Friend should nicely thank the REA for arranging a private sale for them, and tell them to pay any deposit into their (the vendors) lawyer's trust account ASAP.

Or, ask for an agency agreement NOW with no marketing costs, 50% of standard fees, and fees and costs paid only on settlement.

If that does not work, contact the agency principal and report to their (vendors) lawyers.

I've already suggested that fees and costs paid only on settlement.
But you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 08:34:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I've already suggested that fees and costs paid only on settlement.
But you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

I see that many times.

johnston - 2021-01-10 09:33:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I've already suggested that fees and costs paid only on settlement.
But you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

There aren't any in this case.

superdave0_13 - 2021-01-10 10:16:00

superdave0_13 wrote:

There aren't any in this case.

Not yet, but if this progresses there will be.

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 11:49:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Not yet, but if this progresses there will be.

Handled skillfully your friend could end up paying no commission or an amount your friend wants to.

Tell your friend, that if the agent is so willing to break the law what else is the agent prepared to do? I advise caution dealing with this one.

Edited by johnston at 12:06 pm, Sun 10 Jan

johnston - 2021-01-10 12:05:00

johnston wrote:

Handled skillfully your friend could end up paying no commission or an amount your friend wants to.

Tell your friend, that if the agent is so willing to break the law what else is the agent prepared to do? I advise caution dealing with this one.

I've told her to tread carefully, but I know she wouldn't want to rock the boat with the REA, which I find frustrating, I'd be trying to sink the boat quicker than the Bismarck sunk the Hood in this instance. RIP.
The REA is also angling to sell her another house so I've already asked if she's going to negotiate the commission on the sale of hers, she's still mulling over her situation.

Edited by mrcat1 at 12:42 pm, Sun 10 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 12:41:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Not yet, but if this progresses there will be.

Nope, there is no entitlement to commission without a listing agreement. Maybe the friendly agent was planning to do it gratis?

superdave0_13 - 2021-01-10 16:44:00

superdave0_13 wrote:

Nope, there is no entitlement to commission without a listing agreement. Maybe the friendly agent was planning to do it gratis?

There is no entitlement but if the vendor pays anyhow then it's all a bit redundant.

johnston - 2021-01-10 16:46:00

johnston wrote:

There is no entitlement but if the vendor pays anyhow then it's all a bit redundant.

What if the agent presents an agency agreement, along with the required Guide, etc tomorrow?

sparkychap - 2021-01-10 16:50:00

sparkychap wrote:

What if the agent presents an agency agreement, along with the required Guide, etc tomorrow?

Nope.

johnston - 2021-01-10 16:54:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I've already suggested that fees and costs paid only on settlement.
But you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

Good on you mrcat1 ????
Don’t be put off sharing that information with everyone...
Some people will listen and appreciate your advice.Tell them to make sure the (non refundable) deposit goes to their lawyer so if the sale doesn’t happen they’ve benefited not the ‘salesperson’ who will walk off into the sunset with his commission, leaving behind extra legal costs and the need to go back to the market...

lovelurking - 2021-01-10 17:10:00

Another thing, surely the REA knows she needed a listing agreement or whatever it’s called before hand ?

lovelurking - 2021-01-10 17:17:00

Interesting reading this thread. My advice to friend would be to also consult a "Canny" lawyer with plenty of property experience and don't agree or sign anything before doing so. Other posters have mentioned deposit to lawyer and no fees until settlement, but EVERYTHING in the scenario needs to be put to a lawyer ASAP to protect themselves. A good lawyer will have experienced all the "cons" tricks and "roundabout" ways of both naive and wily real estate agents, some of who try to circumvent the law. Capricorngirl

mlarkin - 2021-01-10 17:38:00

sparkychap wrote:

What if the agent presents an agency agreement, along with the required Guide, etc tomorrow?

From what's been said the REA is fronting up tomorrow with an agreement.
I did ask about the guide and if the REA has compiled that and given it to her, but the REA hasn't.

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:27 pm, Sun 10 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 18:22:00

lovelurking wrote:

Another thing, surely the REA knows she needed a listing agreement or whatever it’s called before hand ?

Well I've since learnt after she's been to some open homes with deadline sale, that the agent is putting the offers in envelopes and when it gets to the deadline the vendor is going to open them up and choose an offer, I said that sounds like a tender but advertised as by dead line sale, I would have thought it was a multi offer arrangement?

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:28 pm, Sun 10 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 18:25:00

mrcat1 wrote:

From what's been said the REA is fronting up tomorrow with an agreement.
I did ask about the guide and if the REA has compiled that and given it to her, but the REA hasn't.

Don't forget the requisite appraisal.

Edited by johnston at 7:00 pm, Sun 10 Jan

johnston - 2021-01-10 19:00:00

johnston wrote:

Don't forget the requisite appraisal.

I asked if REA had done that when she got a verbal value, then said when I looked at selling my place that 3 REA had provided pretty comprehensive appraisal folders, that may be tomorrow.

mrcat1 - 2021-01-10 19:51:00

So we have an agent trying to sell a property without a written appraisal and a signed listing agreement? Please.

superdave0_13 - 2021-01-10 22:23:00

superdave0_13 wrote:

So we have an agent trying to sell a property without a written appraisal and a signed listing agreement? Please.

Yup. Which is my earlier point, being that she has already demonstrated her disregard for the law so what else is she prepared to do? Undersell, misrepresent the property, favour a buyer over others or the vendor, or buy herself?

johnston - 2021-01-11 06:53:00

mrcat1 wrote:

Well I've since learnt after she's been to some open homes with deadline sale, that the agent is putting the offers in envelopes and when it gets to the deadline the vendor is going to open them up and choose an offer, I said that sounds like a tender but advertised as by dead line sale, I would have thought it was a multi offer arrangement?

Yep - effectively a deadline sale is an easy tender - but without the formality. It's basically a way to impact "a sense of urgency" in the purchaser and yes, because it could situation the agent should be following multi-offer guidelines.

sparkychap - 2021-01-11 07:34:00

Would that be in Te Atatu South?

kerryalan - 2021-01-11 09:02:00

johnston wrote:

Yup. Which is my earlier point, being that she has already demonstrated her disregard for the law so what else is she prepared to do? Undersell, misrepresent the property, favour a buyer over others or the vendor, or buy herself?

Just can't see a licensee carrying on this way... It's not really possible for an agent to sell a property without a listing agreement.

superdave0_13 - 2021-01-11 09:18:00

superdave0_13 wrote:

Just can't see a licensee carrying on this way... It's not really possible for an agent to sell a property without a listing agreement.

Unfortunately a small number do.

johnston - 2021-01-11 10:07:00

johnston wrote:

Yup. Which is my earlier point, being that she has already demonstrated her disregard for the law so what else is she prepared to do? Undersell, misrepresent the property, favour a buyer over others or the vendor, or buy herself?

Just to clarify,
friend is a female, agent is a male.

mrcat1 - 2021-01-11 18:35:00

kerryalan wrote:

Would that be in Te Atatu South?

No, I haven't lived near to Tat sth in years.

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:37 pm, Mon 11 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-11 18:36:00

superdave0_13 wrote:

Just can't see a licensee carrying on this way... It's not really possible for an agent to sell a property without a listing agreement.

I've already said to friend that the REA is operating outside the law, but being a friend of hers I think she's letting things slide, I did go on to say that they are actually working, and there's regulation around their work which they should be operating to.
Friend or no friend.

I have basically walked away now, as you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

Edited by mrcat1 at 6:43 pm, Mon 11 Jan

mrcat1 - 2021-01-11 18:40:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I have basically walked away now, as you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

Well done mrcat1 at least you tried.

sparkychap - 2021-01-11 18:46:00

This message was deleted.

hooserat - 2021-01-13 00:03:00

hooserat wrote:

i had an agent come to my door asking if i wanted to sell.
they said they would give me a written appraisal net week, agent came back with a verbal one.
Do they need to give a written appraisal by law?

Before a listing agreement is signed yes.

superdave0_13 - 2021-01-13 06:31:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I've already said to friend that the REA is operating outside the law, but being a friend of hers I think she's letting things slide, I did go on to say that they are actually working, and there's regulation around their work which they should be operating to.
Friend or no friend.

I have basically walked away now, as you can lead a horse to water, you just can't make it drink.

I hear you.

johnston - 2021-01-13 08:37:00

hooserat wrote:

i had an agent come to my door asking if i wanted to sell.
they said they would give me a written appraisal net week, agent came back with a verbal one.
Do they need to give a written appraisal by law?

And you must sign an agency agreement before the agent offers the property to anyone. In turn you have 5 working days to cancel it (in your case).

Edited by johnston at 8:40 am, Wed 13 Jan

johnston - 2021-01-13 08:40:00