I had a youngish tenant i gave a chance as WINZ asked i would rent to her and 2 children, After 6 months she was back with her former unstable partner and had her parents move in and take over custody and tenancy as it was a 2 year fixed term. Winz assist the parents with the 2 children they now have guardianship of and the parents had brought a modest value car on 100% finance 6 months ago and now decided to buy a bigger car and not trade in the old one so now have 2 cars on finance owing more than they are worth and now cannot afford the rent and WINZ payments are stopped with no notice or comms to me. Should i be taking this up with WINZ or the tenants who have a low level of financial literacy and understanding.

shorebee - 2020-11-10 10:55:00

Who pays you, WINZ or the tenants?
Even if WINZ do pay you, the tenant can stop the payment at any stage.

Unless you have a contact with WINZ!

Time to start proceedings, I'm afraid.

smallwoods - 2020-11-10 11:40:00

D. None of the above...
If I were you I’d sell up.

Sorry, I can’t offer any help, sounds like a nightmare situation you are in. ????

lovelurking - 2020-11-10 11:42:00

W.I.N.Z. will probably deny information due to client confidentiality, even if you ask why they don't insist on clients getting budgetting advice.

amasser - 2020-11-10 11:54:00

Is the rent owing more than 21 days? If so, apply to the Tenancy Tribunal immediately to terminate the tenancy.

Then if you want to tenants to stay but pay, you and the tenants apply for assistance from the Sustaining Tenancies programme. Sounds like the tenants would be good prospects for help. At the very least you will get some rent and time to work out a better approach.

https://www.hud.govt.nz/community-and-public-housing/support
-for-people-in-need/our-housing-support-initiatives/sustaini
ng-tenancies/

artemis - 2020-11-10 12:28:00

artemis wrote:

Is the rent owing more than 21 days? If so, apply to the Tenancy Tribunal immediately to terminate the tenancy.

Then if you want to tenants to stay but pay, you and the tenants apply for assistance from the Sustaining Tenancies programme. Sounds like the tenants would be good prospects for help. At the very least you will get some rent and time to work out a better approach.

https://www.hud.govt.nz/community-and-public-housing/support
-for-people-in-need/our-housing-support-initiatives/sustaini
ng-tenancies/

Do you really think that the OP should be obligated to 'help' them any more than they already have? If a 2nd car was needed because one of them had got a job then they should also be able to meet their financial obligations or perhaps they just didn't calculate that their WINZ 'income' would be impacted. Otherwise IMO a 2nd car is pure luxury or perhaps they got it because they would prefer to live in it instead of having a roof over their heads.

Edited by brouser3 at 12:56 pm, Tue 10 Nov

brouser3 - 2020-11-10 12:54:00

You have been caught in a honey trap by WINZ & HNZ. I would speculate your tenant has been evicted by HNZ but HNZ through WINZ have to find a home. They just can't dump them on the street. HNZ/WINZ have their people searching this site and others everyday for a likely soft target...You ! We have been approached in the past by HNZ/ WINZ agents . They have another name but are part of WINZ..The violins are playing the sob stories. ..All's well until they get their client in your door...One... WINZ won't guarantee your rent, 2 WINZ won't cover damage. The tenant will be on a 12 month stand down from HNZ. THey WINZ/HNZ know the tenancy law and also know your stuck with this lot for a year, after you win they, your tenants are entitled, after a year to get another HNZ property. With Labour & Ardern in power it will get worse..I have no doubt a landlord will nearly be forced to take a tenant under new RTA regs coming into place.. DON"T every get caught up with any HNZ or WINZ agent it will cost you dearly. We have had 1 rental we purchased off a person in your circumstances. They lost money big time and had to rent their own home out and move to Aus for work.. This was a couple of yrs back....Sorry to hear your circumstances. It will be a tough year ahead.

cadmus - 2020-11-10 14:02:00

Cadmus, strongly suspect the original tenant was in emergency accommodation as otherwise there is probably not going to be government assistance into the private sector. That situation has changed now, maybe for the better, maybe not. The landlord now needs to follow the correct procedure to terminate the tenancy (if possible*) or help find a way to support the tenants until they come right or can be required to leave.

Admirable for the landlord to try to help, but probably the last time!

* May be tricky with a fixed term tenancy as there are only limited ways to terminate.

artemis - 2020-11-10 14:51:00

I believe you can still give 6 week, no cause evictions through until feb 21 2021 (I think, others can confirm or tenancy tribunal). If so, evict today. Take them to the tribunal for lost rent and damage to the property as invariably there will be, with an unpleasant eviction. Do not give them a second chance, no matter what the circumstances. Please, check your eviction rights today and evict. If you wait too long you'll never get them out once the new no cause evictions come in. Being a landlord is no different to any other business. It's your income they're stealing and if they're angry about eviction goodness only knows what property damage you could suffer. Last story I read about, landlord gave tenant 3 months of no rent due to covid19 and he returned the favour by causing $10k worth of damage. I would suggest getting a PM to distance yourself from tenants or selling up. Unfortunately your kindness has caused you this situation. My very best wishes in getting rid of these people. ETA, yes there could be complications as it's fixed term. I missed that bit ????????♀️.

Edited by oakcottage at 2:59 pm, Tue 10 Nov

oakcottage - 2020-11-10 14:57:00

The tenant is playing one party against the other... if they default on the car/s payment the finance company will be around "quick as a flash" and take the car/s back.... if they default on the rent, basically nothing will happen for several months, if ever !! The wheel most likely to squeak get the oil !!

onl_148 - 2020-11-10 15:01:00

artemis wrote:

Cadmus, strongly suspect the original tenant was in emergency accommodation as otherwise there is probably not going to be government assistance into the private sector. That situation has changed now, maybe for the better, maybe not. The landlord now needs to follow the correct procedure to terminate the tenancy (if possible*) or help find a way to support the tenants until they come right or can be required to leave.

Admirable for the landlord to try to help, but probably the last time!

* May be tricky with a fixed term tenancy as there are only limited ways to terminate.

We work on a floating tenancy. No one is then locked in. The best way then if you get the right person transfer to a fixed term. No problems. Wrong person move out. We are not sure of the new RTA agreement. Luckily all our tenants are great and the area is middle, up. But do your homework.

We had a block of 4 undergoing repairs due to the ChCH earthquake. They were all vacant at the time. I was onsite watching the work in progress a lovely lady showed up asking who owned the property. I said it's a family affair, but you can talk to me.

She wanted to rent the entire block. After some research and to cut a long story short, it was an HNZ agent. They use a different name but it is HNZ affiliate.. they wanted 1 yr fixed. .. Of course..."No" rent guarantee, "No" guarantee of repairs...In a nut shell she wanted to dump excess tenants into our properties, and then let us deal with it... I politely told her to F off

cadmus - 2020-11-10 16:30:00

What a nightmare for you. Possibly look at selling this property and be done with the problem. Good luck.

megan109 - 2020-11-10 17:38:00

Call Tenancy Services and get the correct advice as to terminating the tenancy. Act immediately.

pleco - 2020-11-11 05:59:00

cadmus wrote:

I politely told her to F off

I am confused by that statement, the whole point of telling someone to F off is to make a point that they aren't wanted at that location, period.
Is this world getting to the point where you have to politely tell someone to F off because you might offend them or hurt their feelings??
If you feel the need to tell someone to F off and they are just being a numpty, then it should be bold and loud so they thoroughly get the message loud and clear.

mrcat1 - 2020-11-11 10:04:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I am confused by that statement, the whole point of telling someone to F off is to make a point that they aren't wanted at that location, period.
Is this world getting to the point where you have to politely tell someone to F off because you might offend them or hurt their feelings??
If you feel the need to tell someone to F off and they are just being a numpty, then it should be bold and loud so they thoroughly get the message loud and clear.

Please F off..
See, polite!

smallwoods - 2020-11-11 12:03:00

It was some advocate to get them out of emergency housing and said winz wold pay and they hav been, then the daughter abandons the kids with her parents who take over guardianship and tenancy, then i fond out they are all related to the advocate. I brought fridge/washer and all crockery n cutlery to make them safe and secure. i had a 2 year fixed term with the daughter who has transfered to the parents who do want to now find a HNZ place as my 2 bedroom is to small for a family of 4, used to be 3 but now with parents its 4.
I cant sell as its my retirement home and i brought it 13 years ago. My kids just brought the place next door and moved in last week so no way i want to let it go. Just seems like cars and other debts are more important than rent or the commitments these folks signed up for.

shorebee - 2020-11-12 13:09:00

shorebee wrote:

.... Just seems like cars and other debts are more important than rent or the commitments these folks signed up for.

Very common.
By no means am I saying this mindset is common for 'all tenants'.
Just the bad ones ;)

Got to admit Shorebee, given you've been on this board for years, there are some decisions made above that surprise me.

Your initial question was "Should i be taking this up with WINZ or the tenants who have a low level of financial literacy and understanding." You can try WINZ but given your tenant is now not the tenant that WINZ placed with you, I bet the will not discuss the matter with you because of privacy.

You keep saying 'daughter transferred the tenancy', but haven't clarified whether you did a new tenancy agreement etc .... I am going to guess, not??? To be honest, either way you going to need to go off to the Tenancy Tribunal.

desi1969 - 2020-11-12 13:38:00

Shorebee, do you want the tenants to stay or to go? You have options either way, not necessarily guaranteed successful though.

Might be a good idea to place the tenancy with a property manager for the time being, or have a plan in place to follow one step at a time.

artemis - 2020-11-12 13:41:00

desi1969 wrote:

Very common.
By no means am I saying this mindset is common for 'all tenants'.
Just the bad ones ;)

Got to admit Shorebee, given you've been on this board for years, there are some decisions made above that surprise me.

Your initial question was "Should i be taking this up with WINZ or the tenants who have a low level of financial literacy and understanding." You can try WINZ but given your tenant is now not the tenant that WINZ placed with you, I bet the will not discuss the matter with you because of privacy.

You keep saying 'daughter transferred the tenancy', but haven't clarified whether you did a new tenancy agreement etc .... I am going to guess, not??? To be honest, either way you going to need to go off to the Tenancy Tribunal.

Quite easy.

If the tenant that signed the fixed term is no longer there, they have broken the terms.
UNLESS you signed over to the parents?
If it wasn't signed over, what contract have they got with you?

If none, you are in deep do-do's

smallwoods - 2020-11-12 14:08:00

smallwoods wrote:

Quite easy.
If the tenant that signed the fixed term is no longer there, they have broken the terms.
UNLESS you signed over to the parents?
If it wasn't signed over, what contract have they got with you?

If none, you are in deep do-do's

Not necessarily. If there is no tenancy agreement with the new occupants then the original tenant remains liable until the end of the fixed term. Even if signed over, rent arrears can be invoked to end the tenancy through the Tenancy Tribunal even though it is fixed term.

artemis - 2020-11-12 14:24:00

artemis wrote:

Not necessarily. If there is no tenancy agreement with the new occupants then the original tenant remains liable until the end of the fixed term. Even if signed over, rent arrears can be invoked to end the tenancy through the Tenancy Tribunal even though it is fixed term.

You forget, the LL let them stay (if no agreement) and took some rent, so therefore they are periodic tenants, not fixed term, unless the LL signed over the original FT.
Which the way I read it they didn't, just the daughter said she had got them to take it over, so on that point, it could be argued there was a FT.
If no, then they are periodic tenants, still a problem, as no agreement?

Which at the end of the day means, no bond has been lodged in regards to this tenant.

BIG do-do's.

Edited by smallwoods at 2:49 pm, Thu 12 Nov

smallwoods - 2020-11-12 14:48:00

shorebee wrote:

I had a youngish tenant i gave a chance as WINZ asked i would rent to her and 2 children, After 6 months she was back with her former unstable partner and had her parents move in and take over custody and tenancy as it was a 2 year fixed term. Winz assist the parents with the 2 children they now have guardianship of and the parents had brought a modest value car on 100% finance 6 months ago and now decided to buy a bigger car and not trade in the old one so now have 2 cars on finance owing more than they are worth and now cannot afford the rent and WINZ payments are stopped with no notice or comms to me. Should i be taking this up with WINZ or the tenants who have a low level of financial literacy and understanding.

I think they thought we get extra money now with kids we can buy a car but now realise they still have to feed the kids.

ash4561 - 2020-11-13 01:24:00

mrcat1 wrote:

I am confused by that statement, the whole point of telling someone to F off is to make a point that they aren't wanted at that location, period.
Is this world getting to the point where you have to politely tell someone to F off because you might offend them or hurt their feelings??If you feel the need to tell someone to F off and they are just being a numpty, then it should be bold and loud so they thoroughly get the message loud and clear.

LOL...It was more the deception on the part of the Govt agent by coming across as someone who was trying to do me/us a great favour by filling the units. When it was really an act of dumping off a job lot surplus stock without being truthful on guarantee of rent, bond or maintenance. In my view they deserve to be told to ......off

cadmus - 2020-11-13 09:22:00

The OP's 'youngish tenant' shifted out, but her parents then shifted in, the kids stayed there.
So the rents still being paid ( sporadically I guess ) under the 'Youngish tenants' name, but she's not living there.
I guess you could file paperwork with the tenancy tribunal but without a known address to send notices to its a bit weird.
The fact that some random people are in your rental property is a bit of a worry though.

marte - 2020-11-13 17:52:00

would like to see where this ends up!

OP, please keep us informed.

smallwoods - 2020-11-14 14:40:00

What a mess....

shortee2 - 2020-11-14 16:50:00

the parents (kids grandparents) did sign a replacement agreement with me and WINZ pays a portion direct and they pay the balance. it was a 2 year fixed term so i loaded the parents with the balance of term. Now they want a HNZ larger home on ground level but the agency has said they are on a fixed term so they require something from me to confirm they can be released from the obligation. I did say it was for their protection and my document would confirm that they can be released from the dwelling but not from the rent obligation until a replacement tenant has been sourced and is in place. WINZ did replace the bond and i refunded the daughter and did bond transfers etc as required and as per this transaction.

shorebee - 2020-11-18 10:59:00

Looks like you did everything right shorebee. Was there an indication when social housing is likely to be available? Some are waiting a long time atm.

You do have the upper hand and before releasing from fixed term could require rent to be up to date and two weeks in advance, plus carry out an inspection to determine if deductions from the bond are likely so to be taken into account.

artemis - 2020-11-18 12:40:00

shorebee wrote:

the parents (kids grandparents) did sign a replacement agreement with me and WINZ pays a portion direct and they pay the balance. it was a 2 year fixed term so i loaded the parents with the balance of term. Now they want a HNZ larger home on ground level but the agency has said they are on a fixed term so they require something from me to confirm they can be released from the obligation. I did say it was for their protection and my document would confirm that they can be released from the dwelling but not from the rent obligation until a replacement tenant has been sourced and is in place. WINZ did replace the bond and i refunded the daughter and did bond transfers etc as required and as per this transaction.

Funny how majority of the posters think your stuck in a nightmare situation when you have the answer in your hands. Cry a few crocodile tears for them as you fondly bid them farewell having advertised already for a new tenant at the new rate

scuba - 2020-11-18 15:43:00

pleco wrote:

Call Tenancy Services and get the correct advice as to terminating the tenancy. Act immediately.

completely agree with your advice. Get in touch with Tenancy services ASAP

megan109 - 2020-11-18 16:18:00