it seems we have lost the right to choose which updates windows 10 installs, and it always seems to do it when i am most busy and need the computer.. - and or stuff doesn't work afterwards...
I have seen various methods to stop the updater or hold but it always comes back, just wondering if i was to use my fire wall program control to block the windows updater app - would this work?

pandana - 2020-06-02 18:26:00

there are various options in windows including pausing updates for a month, delaying till outside work hours etc

for permanent blocking you can use https://www.novirusthanks.org/products/win-update-stop/

but I only recommend doing so to control the installation, the updates should still be installed - eventually...

king1 - 2020-06-02 18:34:00

yep agree. they just have a nasty habit of installing when they feel like it., always when i need to do something... ( particularly studying on line grrrr)

pandana - 2020-06-02 18:42:00

pandana wrote:

yep agree. they just have a nasty habit of installing when they feel like it., always when i need to do something... ( particularly studying on line grrrr)

that usually happens when you only sleep it - by closing lid of laptop etc maybe get in the habit of shutting down/restarting from time to time.

king1 - 2020-06-02 18:51:00

pandana wrote:

yep agree. they just have a nasty habit of installing when they feel like it., always when i need to do something... ( particularly studying on line grrrr)

Updates are (usually) only once a month and will not force install until you've already put them off for quite a while. Easiest thing to do is just install them as they arrive.

vtecintegra - 2020-06-02 21:55:00

Why would you muck with MS install Linux Mint & have no further worries & it free with all the support you need

timberman - 2020-12-05 20:46:00

this is supposed to work
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/get-updates-when
-you-re-away-from-your-pc-with-active-hours-in-windows-10-09
b5376c-7647-4361-1423-c29aa692a8c4#:~:text=Here%20are%20two%
20ways%20to,then%20select%20Change%20active%20hours.

Doesn't help if you work irregular hours.

Edited by bitsnpieces2020 at 9:22 pm, Sat 5 Dec

bitsnpieces2020 - 2020-12-05 21:22:00

timberman wrote:

Why would you muck with MS install Linux Mint & have no further worries & it free with all the support you need

gosh it sounds perfect - why does it only have a 1% market share?

king1 - 2020-12-05 22:59:00

????????????

nice_lady - 2020-12-06 06:03:00

Linux is good, and for some reason the computer hardly slows down at all when the updates are installing (even if you have an ancient atom netbook), and they never install without asking first.

However, the question was about Windows 10 updates, and as much as I love Linux, we need to stick to the topic.

You could of course install a pi-hole in your network and blacklist the microsoft update servers, and you might possibly be able to write a script to unblock those servers at a certain time, but I think it would be much more trouble than it is worth.

tygertung - 2020-12-06 06:44:00

king1 wrote:

gosh it sounds perfect - why does it only have a 1% market share?

I know its a sarcastic and probably rhetorical question. But the reasons aren't just because windows is "better".
WIndows & mac come pre-installed. You have to be fairly proficient, and determined to change that.
The devil you know, comes into play. What incentive is there to relearn what user knowledge you have?
Most people probably couldn't give a toss what OS the PC runs, its the familiar apps they are after.
Also how do you know those stats are accurate? Lots of prebuilt computers & laptops will have windows. Sometimes the first thing that happens to them is an OS wipe, and something else put on. It still counts as a windows sale though doesn't it ?
As windows becomes dumber (windows home S mode) and more restrictive, and more people use web apps that are OS agnostic, as gaming gets to be more multi-platform, I think we will see a shift in some sectors away from windows, gradually. 5-10% market share by 2030 perhaps.

Edited by bitsnpieces2020 at 9:12 am, Sun 6 Dec

bitsnpieces2020 - 2020-12-06 09:04:00

yeah it was a dig at the ridiculously inaccurate promises and assurances made by fanboys.
I mean no-one with any integrity can categorically state that they will have 'no further worries' just because they use linux, it ain't perfect...
As for all the support you need? as long as you don't mind waiting for a conversation to play out over days on a forum with some random stranger... at least with windows there is a good chance your neighbor's dog knows how to fix it...

Edited by king1 at 9:32 am, Sun 6 Dec

king1 - 2020-12-06 09:28:00

king1 wrote:

yeah it was a dig at the ridiculously inaccurate promises and assurances made by fanboys.
I mean no-one with any integrity can categorically state that they will have 'no further worries' just because they use linux, it ain't perfect...
As for all the support you need? as long as you don't mind waiting for a conversation to play out over days on a forum with some random stranger... at least with windows there is a good chance your neighbor's dog knows how to fix it...

You are losing if you have to resort to name calling.

There is actually a lot more info online on fixing linux issues and the people on the forums tend to be more knowledgeable, and the problems are usually fixable. Also the forums tend to be pretty active so no need to wait for days either.

Of course it isn't perfect. Nothing made by humans is going to be, but these days it tends to be pretty trouble free if you are not doing anything specialised.

tygertung - 2020-12-06 12:42:00

What name calling?

Anyway suggesting to people whose problems with windows are usually pretty basic, (yet they have to come here for instance for help), that they install a new OS, and go thru the learning curve of how to use it, is pretty silly.

nice_lady - 2020-12-06 12:47:00

tygertung wrote:

You are losing if you have to resort to name calling.

what would you prefer - fanatic? evangelist? advocate? it's all just describing a category of people. Admittedly fanboy has a slightly more negative quality about it, but that's probably because of the tendency of said group to overstate the positives and understate (or more accurately completely ignore) the negatives... and of course the reverse logic applies when they talk about windows... but name calling, it is not...

Edited by king1 at 5:31 pm, Sun 6 Dec

king1 - 2020-12-06 17:30:00

tygertung wrote:

Linux is good, the updates never install without asking first.

They don't install without asking..it's an option YOU choose in the first place, be notified that they are there...or not.
I don't get any notification, I must go into the update program itself and refresh and then choose what, if any, I want.
And they are separate from the kernel.

But yes, there are a few working utilities to get back control in Windows.
My son hasn't had any forced updates in 3 yrs with Win10.

lythande1 - 2020-12-06 17:52:00

That's lucky because pandana is having forced updates. Perhaps you can ask your son how he achieves this and tell pandana.

tygertung - 2020-12-07 06:44:00

tygertung wrote:

That's lucky because pandana is having forced updates. Perhaps you can ask your son how he achieves this and tell pandana.

you do realise that this thread was dragged up from June, so Pandana is probably long gone by now...

But anyway I'll answer your question... Windows always asks when it can install updates, it usually does this when activity is detected so it is certain that someone will see it...
The options given are
- Restart now
- Pick a time
- Snooze
eg https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/i
mages/wufb-quality-engaged-notification.png
Ignoring these will result in a restart eventually but you are well notified...

Within the update settings...
there are options for setting 'active hours'. Outside of these hours windows can install updates, providing an approx 30 minute warning that it will restart soon.
There is also the option to pause updates for up to 2 months
I also have the option to defer Feature updates (the major upgrades) for up to a year.

Very few people would agree that it is a good idea to permanently disable updates, even in the linux community, so I think Microsoft have the balance right in providing notifications and options for delaying installs etc basically giving users some control...

Now if you must have total control over the updates, for example mission critical stuff (I have a server running a couple of virtual machines) then there are also the 3rd party options as I mentioned in June at the beginning of this thread....

king1 - 2020-12-07 12:55:00

vtecintegra wrote:

Updates are (usually) only once a month and will not force install until you've already put them off for quite a while. Easiest thing to do is just install them as they arrive.

Too much logic in your post for the average simpleton to understand.

muppet_slayer - 2020-12-07 14:13:00

Yes, it one of the most talked about 'problems' with Win10 - the numerous updates and the ill-designed process. Obviously written by a geek and not someone with end-use experience.

There are many articles with advice for taking some level of control, such as this one:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-a
utomatically-windows-10

soundsgood - 2020-12-07 15:33:00

soundsgood wrote:

Yes, it one of the most talked about 'problems' with Win10 - the numerous updates and the ill-designed process.

i tend to disagree - the biggest problem is the end-user simply ignoring notifications completely. If said end-user spent the minute required to understand the windows update notification and the multichoice question, there would be no problems like this... I mean it's multichoice, three options, how much simpler could they possibly make it...

king1 - 2020-12-07 15:48:00

I have no problem with windows update at all, and I have very little patience. I even go to update page and check for updates manually.

Why do I have no problems but you do? Doesn't that tell you that the problem is user related and not the OS fault.

muppet_slayer - 2020-12-07 16:22:00

Mostly. But updates have indeed been known to cause issues for users.

nice_lady - 2020-12-07 16:35:00

I think the issue people have with them is how much CPU time they use, and how it adds a very long time on to shut downs and boots. At my work sometimes it would add hours on to booting for some inexplicable reason.

Maybe if you have the latest high end PC it isn't much of an issue, but for the average person with the average PC it does appear to be a problem, thus so many complaints.

tygertung - 2020-12-07 16:39:00

king1 wrote:

what would you prefer - fanatic? evangelist? advocate? it's all just describing a category of people. Admittedly fanboy has a slightly more negative quality about it, but that's probably because of the tendency of said group to overstate the positives and understate (or more accurately completely ignore) the negatives... and of course the reverse logic applies when they talk about windows... but name calling, it is not...

How about user? That is a neutral term. Linux user, Windows user, Macintosh user, Amiga user, Acorn user, ZX spectrum user etc.

tygertung - 2020-12-07 16:42:00

tygertung wrote:

How about user? That is a neutral term. Linux user, Windows user, Macintosh user, Amiga user, Acorn user, ZX spectrum user etc.

User doesn't seem appropriate under the circumstances (post #6), doesn't quite have the same "unthinking pawn of a major label/brand" ring about it (to quote urbandictionary).

Edited by king1 at 4:58 pm, Mon 7 Dec

king1 - 2020-12-07 16:53:00

Lol

nice_lady - 2020-12-07 16:56:00

The member deleted this message.

cube_guy - 2020-12-07 20:54:00

king1 wrote:

User doesn't seem appropriate under the circumstances (post #6), doesn't quite have the same "unthinking pawn of a major label/brand" ring about it (to quote urbandictionary).

What they said was correct though, if the Windows user did install Linux Mint, they would have no further problems with Windows updates.

tygertung - 2020-12-07 21:16:00

It's a lot more complicated than that. If the user can't handle windows updates how are they gonna learn to use a whole new OS ?

nice_lady - 2020-12-07 21:18:00

tygertung wrote:

What they said was correct though, if the Windows user did install Linux Mint, they would have no further problems with Windows updates.

I'm not entirely convinced that was his meaning but i'll take your word for it...

king1 - 2020-12-07 21:32:00

timberman wrote:

Why would you muck with MS install Linux Mint & have no further worries & it free with all the support you need

haha, and you never update it of course, or try to compile something that was built against a different set of dependencies than the ones you have installed. I love Linux but biased BS is always biased BS, regardless of platform used.

ronaldo8 - 2020-12-08 20:10:00

There generally isn't any need to compile anything as you just install the correct repository and it download it from there.

Sure you update it, but at a time which suits you, and it doesn't seem to slow down very much at all when the updates are installing, even on an ancient machine.

tygertung - 2020-12-08 22:24:00

Users who can't handle Windows update processes will be unlikely to be good candidates for Linux. Its like expecting a person who can't manage to drive an automatic to handle a manual. Good luck with that.

nice_lady - 2020-12-08 22:35:00

nice_lady wrote:

Users who can't handle Windows update processes will be unlikely to be good candidates for Linux. Its like expecting a person who can't manage to drive an automatic to handle a manual. Good luck with that.

and all the controls are in a foreign language...

king1 - 2020-12-08 23:51:00

Yes, in English.

tygertung - 2020-12-09 06:14:00

And actually, Linux is no harder to use. I always install it as a duel boot on my wife's machines and she is no computer expert by any means, and she has no problems with it, because it "just works".

tygertung - 2020-12-09 07:42:00

tygertung wrote:

And actually, Linux is no harder to use. I always install it as a duel boot on my wife's machines and she is no computer expert by any means, and she has no problems with it, because it "just works".

everything "just works" until it doesn't...

king1 - 2020-12-09 09:07:00

I always find a product/services own user forum is the best place to discover how reliable a product is, faults that can occur etc and of course, claims of greatness by, ahem... 'users'...

coincidentally, look what I found
https://forums.linuxmint.com/

king1 - 2020-12-09 10:23:00

Anyone unsure of what a Unix would be like to use on their machine can simply run it on any USB device (thumb drive, spare disk, memory card with adapter) to try it out before making a commitment.

Easy to follow instructions:
https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows#1
-overview

soundsgood - 2020-12-09 15:26:00

king1 wrote:

everything "just works" until it doesn't...

It isn't like 10 years ago, it is generally pretty good now.

tygertung - 2020-12-09 16:14:00

tygertung wrote:

There generally isn't any need to compile anything as you just install the correct repository and it download it from there.

Sure you update it, but at a time which suits you, and it doesn't seem to slow down very much at all when the updates are installing, even on an ancient machine.

O, is that so? Generally..Maybe if all you do with it is run a web browser then sure, personally I think you'd be better off with a tablet if that's the case.

But if you use it for what is strength is, access to a world of open-source code then not so much.

I've run unixen of many flavours for many many many years, spare me the horse shit.

ronaldo8 - 2020-12-09 20:36:00

ronaldo8 wrote:

O, is that so? Generally..Maybe if all you do with it is run a web browser then sure, personally I think you'd be better off with a tablet if that's the case.

But if you use it for what is strength is, access to a world of open-source code then not so much.

I've run unixen of many flavours for many many many years, spare me the horse shit.

Why compile it yourself? Just get the PPA oiff the developer and then you can get the latest bleeding edge updates.

tygertung - 2020-12-10 07:32:00

tygertung wrote:

Why compile it yourself? Just get the PPA oiff the developer and then you can get the latest bleeding edge updates.

/facepalm

You live strictly in userland clearly.

ronaldo8 - 2020-12-10 15:37:00

I have compiled something from code, but there didn't actually seem to be any advantage, and it took ages. I'm in userland so just use the bleeding edge PPA, no problem for me.

tygertung - 2020-12-10 16:00:00