Transported Children of Convicts
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| 1 | I'm trying to track down how one of my great great grandmother's arrived in Australia. Mary McCarthy nee Quinn's died in 1860 aged 34 in Cooma NSW. Her death certificate said she had been born in Dublin and had been in Australia 30 years. The information was given by her husband John McCarthy who she had supposedly married in Sydney in 1840, but I haven't been able to locate any record of the marriage. My question is, can anyone suggest anywhere I might look to identify the name and age of a child transported with her convict mother? I've had no luck with Orphan School records and on any records where I've found such a child, there's been nothing to indicate the sex, age or name. deecee2 - 2019-12-04 16:43:00 |
| 2 | The member deleted this message. stock - 2019-12-04 20:50:00 |
| 3 | This funeral notice indicates husband John McCarthy is already deceased: The death notice is on page 1. Or is this another Mary McCarthy? stock - 2019-12-04 21:16:00 |
| 4 | Thanks stock, but that's another John and Mary McCarthy. My John and Mary were heading between goldfields on the back of a cart with a tribe of kids (6 of them) when she died of influenza in the Snowy Mountains. John was the informant for the death certificate. I very much doubt he could have afforded to place any death notice. There didn't even appear to be a minister or priest, certainly none is listed on the certificate. deecee2 - 2019-12-05 14:24:00 |
| 5 | OP, do you know for sure that Mary's mother was a convict? If she was then it's possible the mother's family (including Mary) followed her out to Australia at some later date. I've an instance of that in my own family. The mother was convicted of theft and transported to Australia, and her husband and children came out soon after on a different ship (voluntarily!). Generally there are better records for prisoners transported to Australia than there are for normal emigrants. Might Mary herself have been a convict? If she was the age her husband provided when he registered her death then Mary would've been born about 1826, and therefore only about 14 years old in 1840 (when you say they married). Perhaps she fibbed about her age? Do you have birth registrations for all the children? When and where was the eldest child born? Edits: Spelling mistakes! Edited by ed65 at 4:49 pm, Thu 5 Dec ed65 - 2019-12-05 16:44:00 |
| 6 | Thanks ed65 but I know nothing for certain. I don't have birth registrations for all the children, in some cases only baptism, and the information supplied varies each time. The eldest child was born 1845 in Oxley, Queensland, the next 1847 Ipswich Queensland, then 1848 Woolongong, NSW, then 1851 Kilmore, Victoria, 1852 Goulburn, NSW, 1855 Elphistone, Victoria, another 1858 in Kilmore, Victoria. They were very itinerant people. deecee2 - 2019-12-07 15:34:00 |
| 7 | It's always difficult when you can't find any records to back up the information recorded on a death certificate. It's also possible John McCarthy didn't know exactly where Mary was born, or exactly how long she'd been in Australia. But he had to tell them something when he registered her death so may have given them his "best guess"! I don't know if you can be bothered but if it was me, I'd scour all the emigrant and convict passenger lists I could find and compile a list of every Mary Quinn who'd be old enough to have a child in 1845. And then you try to track each of those Mary Quinns to see what became of them. When it's clear that an individual on your list can't possibly be your great great grandmother (eg. she married someone else, or died before 1860), then cross them off and move on to the next Mary Quinn on your list. Also, assuming both John and Mary were Irish then there's a very good chance at least one of their 6 children was named after a parent of Mary's. OP, are you able to access the passenger lists on Find My Past, Ancestry and Family Search? If not, we can have a look for you. ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:17:00 |
| 8 | Here's one possibility to start you off, from Find My Past: Office Copies Of Printed Indents 1831-1842 (Nrs 12189) ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:19:00 |
| 9 | The Kilkenny Journal of 23 Oct 1839 has mention of the same Mary Quinn mentioned in post #8. She was one of several convicted at the Thomastown sessions between 18 and 21 Oct, and her entry reads "Mary Quinn, (from Waterford), stealing clothes, to be transported for 7 years." ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:27:00 |
| 10 | Another possibility, and this time it's in Dublin. At the General Quarter Sessions in Dublin on 4 Oct 1832 "Catherine Kelly, Eliza Murphy, and Mary Quinn, were sentenced to seven years transportation for shop-lifting." (source: Find My Past 'Warder and Dublin Weekly Mail' 6 Oct 1832). Edit: Another Dublin newspaper reported that Catherine Kelly and Mary Quinn were found guilty of stealing two pieces of gingham from a shop in Grafton St. Edited by ed65 at 5:36 pm, Sat 7 Dec ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:33:00 |
| 11 | Find My Past transcription of the convict ship record for the Mary Quinn in post #10: First name(s) Mary ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:40:00 |
| 12 | OP, if your great great grandmother turns out to be one of the Mary Quinns who was sentenced to transportation in 1832 or 1839, there are also scanned copies of the original passenger lists that include physical descriptions of both women. ed65 - 2019-12-07 17:43:00 |
| 13 | Many thanks ed65. Yes, I have quite a collection of various Mary Quinns, Guins and Quans. There were a lot of them, it seems to be a common name. The reason I've been looking for a child is because the death certificate says she had been in Australia for 30 years, and was from Dublin. However a birth entry for one of the children, Thomas in 1858 says they married in 1839, that she was from Stafford, England, her name was Mary Quinn maiden name Ingram and she was 28, which would make her birth year 1830. The informant on each occasion was the father/husband, John McCarthy/McCarty. I do have access to Ancestry, but not Find My Past or Family Seach. deecee2 - 2019-12-08 13:50:00 |
| 14 | Have you tried DNA testing? I wouldn't be surprised if one or more descendants of Mary's immediate family will have tested their DNA. Check out those of your DNA matches whose trees indicate they have Ingram ancestry, and see if you can find Mary. Likely family back in England (?) never knew what became of her after she left for Australia so a DNA match between you and another Ingram descendant could end up knocking down two brick walls in one go. Family Search's online records (and trees) are free to search but you'll need to register with them first. Find My Past offers a free 2 week trial, and you can also purchase a month's subscription at a time. ed65 - 2019-12-08 16:35:00 |
| 15 | Could it be that Mary was one of the thousands of Irish immigrants into Staffordshire in the early 1800s? She might have been born in Dublin, lived for a time in Staffordshire and later travelled to Australia. One of my own ancestors did this. It might be worthwhile keeping such a possibility in mind. chaschman - 2019-12-08 20:00:00 |
| 16 | Yes, I've tried DNA testing, but we all have got to the same brick wall. I'll give Family Search and Find My Past a go. That's a good suggestion, chaschman, many thanks. deecee2 - 2019-12-09 14:15:00 |
