| 1 | Hi guys, it’s a slightly long story but would appreciate any help!
I was given a dna kit for Christmas so jumped on a free trial when I got the results and did my family tree with all the info I had.
I then got an email asking about details on my grandmother from someone (in a group of 3 people) doing a massive family tree...
They revealed that my grandmother had a sister that was illegitimate that none of my family knew about. Talk about mind blown!
Anyway I’m trying to find more info about the unknown sister....I’ll list all the info I’m aware of....
She was born Violet Irene Green, 4 Jul 1917 • Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England
She was possible adopted by people with the last name Townsend.
And then they think that she married George Thompson.
They also have her death date as 5 Aug 2003 • Ilkley, Yorkshire, England.
My free trial has ended so the info I have access to is super limited! |
| 2 | Order an official copy from the UK General Register Office:
Order a copy of a digitised historical birth, marriage or death certificate from the General Register Office.
First name(s) Violet I
Last name Green
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Green
District Gainsborough
County Lincolnshire
Country England
Volume 7A
Page 1036
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Births
Collections from Great Britain, England carbs51 - 2018-08-22 10:15:00 |
| 3 | What name did she die with? carbs51 - 2018-08-22 10:18:00 |
| 4 | This looks like her death First name(s) Violet Irene
Last name Thompson
Gender Female
Birth day 4
Birth month 7
Birth year 1917
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 2003
District Bradford
District number 0811F
Register number F66A
Entry number 133
Date of registration mm/yy 0803
County Yorkshire
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England carbs51 - 2018-08-22 10:20:00 |
| 5 | danielle216 wrote:
And then they think that she married George Thompson.
The "think" is a bit unreliable but:
FreeBMD.co.uk
Possibly a Townsend - Thompson marriage
Marriages Dec quarter 1935
Townsend Violet I; Thompson; N.Witchford; 3b; 1551 Marriages Dec quarter 1935
Thompson George T; Townsend; N.Witchford; 3b; 1551 stock - 2018-08-22 10:58:00 |
| 6 | Yes that looks like the one. The person who messaged me also thinks she had a son by they don’t know his name?
My mum would love to know if she has a cousin out there somewhere |
| 7 | stock wrote:
The "think" is a bit unreliable but:
FreeBMD.co.uk
Possibly a Townsend - Thompson marriage
Marriages Dec quarter 1935
Townsend Violet I; Thompson; N.Witchford; 3b; 1551 Marriages Dec quarter 1935
Thompson George T; Townsend; N.Witchford; 3b; 1551 I say think because it was a process of elimination and making bits and pieces fit. I believe they’ve ordered a marriage cert but I haven’t heard anything. |
| 8 | In the 1939 Register there is : Name: Violet T Thompson
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 4 Jul 1917
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: North Witchford, Cambridgeshire, England
Occupation: Land Worker
Schedule Number: 5
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: TDCD
Registration district: 185-1
Inferred Spouse: George T Thompson Name: George T Thompson
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 17 Apr 1913
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: North Witchford, Cambridgeshire, England
Occupation: Agricultural Labourer
Schedule Number: 5
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: TDCD
Registration district: 185-1
Inferred Spouse: Violet T Thompson
Household Members:
Name
George T Thompson
Violet T Thompson The 1965 electoral Rolls has
Name: Violet Irene Thompson
Residence Year: 1965
Street address: Mepal Road to
Residence Place: Cambridgeshire, England Also at the same address is George Thomas Thompson and Derek G Thompson. daisy86 - 2018-08-22 17:12:00 |
| 9 | Births Sep 1938
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Thompson Derek G Townsend March 3b 714 carbs51 - 2018-08-22 17:55:00 |
| 10 | Wow thank you so much! Is there any indication that he had any children? I’d love to get in contact Edited by danielle216 at 7:44 pm, Wed 22 Aug |
| 11 | I’ve found a few matches on ancestry but without a subscription I can’t see any info, is anyone able to have a look for me please?
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/?name=Derek+G_Thompson&am
p;birth=1938 |
| 12 | This is all it says Name: Derek G Thompson
Registration Date: 1938
Registration district: March
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire
Re-registration Year: 1938
Mother's Maiden Name: Townsend
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 714 daisy86 - 2018-08-23 13:08:00 |
| 13 | Thanks for having a look. Are there any associated family trees? |
| 14 | I don't have an Ancestry subscription. But there are 3 family trees there for Irene Violet Green born Lincolnshire 1917. https://www.tetakere.org.nz/Your-Library/Digital-Resources/A
ncestry-Library-Edition
Ancestry Library Edition is free to use within Te Takeretanga o Kura-hau-pÅ, Foxton Library and Shannon Library stock - 2018-08-23 17:11:00 |
| 15 | Have you considered possibility Violet may have married a Townsend and emigrated to NZ? lyma1 - 2018-08-23 18:06:00 |
| 16 | Possibly but she died in 2003 in the uk. I was hoping to find any living members to get in contact with. As I said, we’ve only found out about that side of the family a couple of months ago. My grandmother certainly had no idea but she passed away in 2008.
If Derek Thompson is violet and George’s son, that would make him my mums cousin, and around 80 years old, so I’m hoping to find if he had kids |
| 17 | Danielle - it may be worthwhile you getting an Ancestry sub so you can contact the three family trees that Stock mentioned. However, none of those trees mention Derek so they may be unaware of his existence. In the meantime I've done a bit of poking about and I can tell you who he is not: He's not the Derek G married to Joyce Millington in 1960 - that Derek was born in the quarter ended June 1937 (source: Ancestry tree) He's not the Derek G married to Margaret Richardson in 1964 - that couple appear in a different electoral roll record in 1965. I've only searched marriages in Cambridgeshire so, of course, he could have gone elsewhere to get married - possibly even left England. I suspect he may still be alive because his name is blanked out in the 1939 register and I can't see a death on the freebmd. I think your best bet is to contact a people finding agency in England. You've got some good leads - you know his DOB, who his parents are and where he was living in 1965. Dollars to donuts his middle name is "George" after his Dad. daisy86 - 2018-08-24 08:15:00 |
| 18 | A Derek G Thompson marriage in Ely
Marriages Sep 1964 (>99%)
THOMPSON DEREK G RICHARDSON ELY 4A 991 RICHARDSON MARGARET J THOMPSON ELY 4A 991 Might be useful info later. Edited by stock at 11:33 am, Fri 24 Aug stock - 2018-08-24 11:23:00 |
| 19 | Bump! I’ve stalled a bit on my info and don’t really know where to look now |
| 20 | I did find this obituary which could fit in with the info above....
THOMPSON Derek Dearly beloved Husband of Dot, much loved Father of Julie and Wendy and wonderful Grandfather. Passed away on 30th May 2018, aged 82 years. Service to be held at Stoke St Michael's Church, Walsgrave Road, Coventry CV2 4BG on Monday 18th June 2018 at 11.00am, all welcome. Followed by private committal at Canley Crematorium No flowers please, but donations on the day would be appreciated to Myton Hospice, All Enquiries c/o Henry Isons, Allesley Old Road CV5 8GJ Tel 02476713643 |
| 21 | I have found the above Derek, married, I assume Dot is short for dorothy, Dorothy Ward in 1963 |
| 22 | Danielle you can get a monthly sub through Ancestry com Australia, costs about $22 oz dollars. Could be worth joining for a month, you may already have some useful DNA matches which could help you. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-04 18:00:00 |
| 23 | Not exactly what you are after but thought you might like it
Cambridgeshire Baptisms
First name(s) Derek George
Last name Thompson
Year Of Birth 1938
Birth date ? ? 1938
Baptism year 1938
Baptism date 07 Jul 1938
Abode of King's Farm Welches Dam
Place Manea
Mother's Given Name Violet Irene
Father's First Name George Thomas
Father occupation lab
Notes baptised in Welches Dam Mission Church
County Cambridgeshire
Record set Cambridgeshire Baptisms
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from England, Great Britain h28skipper - 2018-12-04 22:37:00 |
| 24 | Cambridgeshire, England, Electoral Registers, Burgess Rolls and Poll Books, 1722-1966
Electoral Registers Isle of Ely County
Between 1960 and 1965 Derek G., George Thomas, and Violet Irene Thompson were all living Mepal Rd h28skipper - 2018-12-05 02:54:00 |
| 25 | Another cheapish option for being able to look at trees and contact people is to take out a sub via their Canadian site ancestry.ca They have a subscription/deal for people who have tested or manage a test that allows you to just look at Canadian records. It's often around $60 Canadian p.a. I prefer having access to more records than just Canada but it did occur to me that to see trees it would be handy. There might be something similar under some of their other sites. Edited by 4pc at 7:41 am, Wed 5 Dec 4pc - 2018-12-05 07:40:00 |
| 26 | Thank you so much guys. I’m so desperate to find him, especially for my mum. I’ve even trawled Facebook for try and find him or his family. |
| 27 | What are your DNA matches looking like? You mentioned being contacted by someone - are they related to the line you are seeking? ,How close is their match? Do they have shared matches to anyone else? I have found that only 20% of my matches have trees, there may be a match there related to this line that does not have a public tree. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-05 21:04:00 |
| 28 | I havnt had any more messages from the original person unfortunately. I did ask how they were related and they replied that our family trees did match up at some point. He gave me access to his and it has over 7,000 people in it but I don’t believe he is in my dna matches.
My dna matches come up with a couple of people but I can’t access their family trees and their names aren’t any I recognise.
It’s frustrating when you see the info on ancestry but don’t have access to it. |
| 29 | Last day of my ancestry sub, so have just had a look to see if I could find anything without having to do analysis of DNA. Good news, there are four public trees with marriage Violet Irene Green (1917-2003) and George T Thompson (1913-1993), those trees are:
Gennery/Gray/Ball/Marsh family tree owned by jangennery (1088 people);
Dalby family tree owned by staceydalby1 (1703 people);
Dunne family tree owned by Errol7966 (71489 people).
When I go to the home person for these trees, your Green/Thompson couple are NOT in their pedigree, so do not appear to be directly related. There is another tree which is the one you probably want:
Thompson Family tree owned by Derek Thompson (40 people). It shows that Derek Thompson is the home person and child of Violet Green and
George Thomas Thompson. He was last signed in four months ago. Just trying to work out how you can contact him without paying a sub, Back soon... catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 20:14:00 |
| 30 | catsmeat1 wrote:
There is another tree which is the one you probably want:
Thompson Family tree owned by Derek Thompson (40 people). It shows that Derek Thompson is the home person and child of Violet Green and
George Thomas Thompson. He was last signed in four months ago. Just trying to work out how you can contact him without paying a sub, Back soon... I saw that tree in the early hours this morning. I actually contacted Derek but haven't had a reply for you yet. Edited by h28skipper at 8:30 pm, Thu 6 Dec h28skipper - 2018-12-06 20:29:00 |
| 31 | Arrgh, sorry I cannot find anyway to find his username or seek him out without a sub. You can do a search and find the trees listed above, but as soon as a non-subscriber clicks on the tree it asks for money. Sorry. You may have to get a sub to contact him. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 20:35:00 |
| 32 | h28skipper wrote:
I saw that tree in the early hours this morning. I actually contacted Derek but haven't had a reply for you yet.
Oh, well done h28skipper, here is hoping you get a reply for Danielle. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 20:36:00 |
| 33 | h28skipper wrote:
I saw that tree in the early hours this morning. I actually contacted Derek but haven't had a reply for you yet. Wow thank you so so much! Fingers crossed he jumps on soon. I sneakily tried to join up under another email to get another free trial but it just says “Requested offer not found” |
| 34 | The jangennery tree has birth cert and marriage cert for Violet - on birth cert mother is named as Nellie May Green (occupation: Mothers help). 1935 Marriage cert for Violet Irene Townsend aged 18, shows father as Marshall Townsend. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 20:59:00 |
| 35 | I was going to ask you first whether you minded me doing that but considered that time is of the essence (due to age, sadly and it was about 3.30 this morning) so I took the liberty. You can give me a good telling off if you want to lol. I'll take it on the chin lol. h28skipper - 2018-12-06 21:02:00 |
| 36 | catsmeat1 wrote:
The jangennery tree has birth cert and marriage cert for Violet - on birth cert mother is named as Nellie May Green (occupation: Mothers help). 1935 Marriage cert for Violet Irene Townsend aged 18, shows father as Marshall Townsend. Interesting! We think violet was adopted by a Townsend family? Maybe, maybe not?? Nellie May is her mother....and we thought she was with Cyril Parkin as that’s who my grandmothers father is.
Is there physical photos or her birth and marriage cert? I’d love a copy if they’re there. My email is danielle216 at hot mail dot com |
| 37 | h28skipper wrote:
I was going to ask you first whether you minded me doing that but considered that time is of the essence (due to age, sadly and it was about 3.30 this morning) so I took the liberty. You can give me a good telling off if you want to lol. I'll take it on the chin lol. Definitely not telling you off!!! I actually am amazed that you’ve found him!! And that I’m not losing my mind haha! I just hope he’s still alive and sees your message. I’d love to know his story about his mum |
| 38 | danielle216 wrote:
Interesting! We think violet was adopted by a Townsend family? Maybe, maybe not?? Nellie May is her mother....and we thought she was with Cyril Parkin as that’s who my grandmothers father is.
Is there physical photos or her birth and marriage cert? I’d love a copy if they’re there. My email is danielle216 at hot mail dot com Two files on their way to you now. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 21:19:00 |
| 39 | Nellie Green married Cyril Parkin in June quarter 1919 (so two years after birth of Violet). Edna Parkin, first child of marriage registered Dec quarter 1919. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 21:27:00 |
| 40 | Just got them, thank you!
Interesting so it’s very possible that violet was fathered by Townsend and maybe his family took the baby?
Edna died unfortunately a few months after birth I think. My grandmother was born in 1922 |
| 41 | danielle216 wrote:
Just got them, thank you!
Interesting so it’s very possible that violet was fathered by Townsend and maybe his family took the baby?
Edna died unfortunately a few months after birth I think. My grandmother was born in 1922
Marshall Townsend born 1880 living in North Witchford in 1939 with his wife Susan (they married in 1900). So looks like you could be correct that he raised Violet. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-06 22:00:00 |
| 42 | I’m still fizzing with all of this!
Is anyone able to tell me when jangennery was last online? Am just wondering if I should get a monthly sub to contact them |
| 43 | danielle216 wrote:
I’m still fizzing with all of this!
Is anyone able to tell me when jangennery was last online? Am just wondering if I should get a monthly sub to contact them She was on Ancestry today. She also has this message on her profile "Please contact me if you have any questions about my family tree. If you've done the ancestry DNA test and I've popped up as a match please message me so that we can work out the connection. Happy to help." ed65 - 2018-12-07 10:00:00 |
| 44 | In 1933/1934 Surrey Electoral Register parish of Caterham
Green, Violet Irene & Townsend, Clara Ada were living at Edgemount, Portley Wood Rd (Whyteleafe) h28skipper - 2018-12-07 10:16:00 |
| 45 | I’ve found her on Facebook so I’ve sent her a message.
Interesting, I wonder if Clara Ada is Marshall and Susan’s child? |
| 46 | ed65 wrote:
She was on Ancestry today. She also has this message on her profile "Please contact me if you have any questions about my family tree. If you've done the ancestry DNA test and I've popped up as a match please message me so that we can work out the connection. Happy to help."
I've been going back through the maternal line for Violet Green and at this stage cannot see a paper trail connecting to jangennery. Re subscription, if you do not get an answer from Derek Thompson or through Jan via Facebook then it might be worth investing $30 for a month of UK Heritage (I go through the com.au website so then it is a monthly sub rather than annual).
Also while you are waiting for those replies you may want to consider downloading your raw data from ancestry (that is if you can without a sub), and uploading to other DNA testing companies - free to upload to gedmatch, familytreeDNA and myheritage. It could be that descendants of Derek Thompson have tested with these other companies and not with ancestry, or it could be they have not tested at all YET.. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-07 10:54:00 |
| 47 | She was an older woman by the looks of it. i think this may be her. Still Surrey but a different street address. Spinster relative? Violet would have been about 18 when with Clara National Probate Calendar
TOWNSEND, Clara Ada of 44 Penge-road South Norwood Surrey spinster died 26 August 1935 at 17 Seymour Villas Anerley Kent Probate London 1 Ooctober to Ethel Kate Lachlan widow, Effects 475 pounds 11 s 3d Deaths Sep 1935
Townsend Clara A 69 Bromley 2a 621
The district Bromley is in the county of Kent; Parents Charles and Harriet
Name: Clara Ada Townsend
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 11 Jun 1866
Baptism Date: 30 Sep 1866
Baptism Place: Saint John Evangelist,Limehouse,London,En-
gland
Father: Charles Townsend
Mother: Harriet Frances h28skipper - 2018-12-07 10:58:00 |
| 48 | I have uploaded my data to gedmatch, and my heritage but I didn’t find a lot of new names on those sites.
It’s all making sense now. Errol Dunne from above was the person who contacted me originally. He said that he and 2 other people were researching violet Irene green etc. Janice gennery (jangennery) is one of the other people researching and I know they had ordered the marriage cert. and I noticed that the marriage certificate was issued in June this year.
I have no idea why they’re researching that part of the family.
There are weird goings on...About 18 months ago....my mums sister got a phone call from a person finding agency acting on behalf of a law firm. They were looking for Blanche (violets sister, my grandma) my aunt and my mum in relation to someone who passed away called Phyllis Harrison. They said they had been looking for them for a few years now. They got their contact details but we havnt heard anything yet. So we have no idea if that’s related to them or not |
| 49 | With your DNA results, I do not know how much of it you can access with no sub, but these are the levels you should be looking for. Writing this out for you as it is easy to assume that your relationship is reasonably close but because of the "half" it creates some distance.
Your grandma Blanche and Violet were half-sisters, so your mother and Derek Thompson will be half first-cousins. Derek and his descendants relationships to you are:
You to Derek - half first cousin 1x removed (57-530 centimorgans)
You to Derek's child - half 2nd cousin (9-397 centimorgans)
You to Derek's grandchild - half 2nd cousin 1x removed (0-341 centimorgans) - sourced from dna painter cmtool.
Ancestry categories:
2nd cousin 200-620CM; 3rd cousin 90-180CM; 4th cousin 20-85CM: distant cousin 6-20CM
So if any of Derek's family have tested they will be down in the 2nd to 4th cousin categories.
If you do decide to get a sub send me an email and I can walk you through helping you analyse which tests belong to which side of your family. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-07 11:20:00 |
| 50 | danielle216 wrote:
I have uploaded my data to gedmatch, and my heritage but I didn’t find a lot of new names on those sites.
It’s all making sense now. Errol Dunne from above was the person who contacted me originally. He said that he and 2 other people were researching violet Irene green etc. Janice gennery (jangennery) is one of the other people researching and I know they had ordered the marriage cert. and I noticed that the marriage certificate was issued in June this year.
I have no idea why they’re researching that part of the family.
There are weird goings on...About 18 months ago....my mums sister got a phone call from a person finding agency acting on behalf of a law firm. They were looking for Blanche (violets sister, my grandma) my aunt and my mum in relation to someone who passed away called Phyllis Harrison. They said they had been looking for them for a few years now. They got their contact details but we havnt heard anything yet. So we have no idea if that’s related to them or not
It is very interesting. My sub is still working so will see what else I can find. It does seem odd that they have done so much research into Violet if not directly related, i.e. paying for certificates, etc.
Back soon. catsmeat1 - 2018-12-07 11:24:00 |
