How do I find out what happened to James
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| 1 | Okay, this is what I know for sure. Here's the thing though. There is a persistent family rumour that James Lorigan and Edward Lawrence are the same person and that the name change and move from Hawkes Bay to central North Island (Apiti, Hunterville etc) was to potentially avoid creditors and the law. Edward (Ted) Ernest Lawrence features routinely in Paperspast in articles about bankruptcy, assault and theft. I cannot find any record of James Montague Lorigan dying in New Zealand. Maybe he abandoned his family and emigrated to Australia or the UK. I don't know where to look for that info. I would be grateful for any suggestions or assistance any of you can provide to help solve this puzzle once and for all. cslaw - 2018-06-30 14:01:00 |
| 2 | This message was deleted. farwest - 2018-06-30 15:02:00 |
| 3 | A birth printout of one of the later children should help carbs51 - 2018-06-30 16:52:00 |
| 4 | cslaw said that the father on the later children's (1890-1899) birth certificates name the father as Edward Ernest Lawrence (known as Ted). h28skipper - 2018-06-30 17:16:00 |
| 5 | Do either of their death certificates state the marriage dates/ages or in Amy's case the number of marriages? nbrob - 2018-06-30 18:15:00 |
| 6 | Ancestry's Police Gazettes, 1878-1945 collection has 5 hits for Edward Ernest Lawrence. The images are likely to include age and birthplace. Check them out to see how they compare with James Montague Lorigan. I don't have a subscription to give more info. stock - 2018-06-30 21:45:00 |
| 7 | Papers Past has a few hits for a James Lorrigan. Manawatu Standard, Volume IV, Issue 23, 24 December 1883: drunk Daily Telegraph, Issue 4615, 21 May 1886: struck off electoral roll Wanganui Herald, Volume XXXVII, Issue 11046, 7 September 1903: James H Lorrigan, prohibited person, enticed another to buy him beer. Wanganui Chronicle, Volume XXXXVII, Issue 12031, 8 September 1903: ditto If he is your man, this is the same time that Edward Ernest Lawrence is active. Significant gap between the Lorigan children & the Lawrence children. Amy Lawrence buried Feilding. What became of Edward Ernest Lawrence? If it is this death: the age is not a really good fit for JM Lorigan in 1859. stock - 2018-06-30 22:10:00 |
| 8 | The member deleted this message. farwest - 2018-06-30 22:14:00 |
| 9 | In case you don't have it, an obituary for Mrs Lawrence: Also Horowhenua Chronicle same date. "Came to New Zealand 30 years ago from England". Lists children: Stanley, Wanganui; Gilbert, Levin; Ralph, Waituna; Victor & Roy Feilding; Mrs Shirley, Palmerston North; & Mabel, Feilding. stock - 2018-06-30 22:37:00 |
| 10 | Thank you all for your suggestions. I will follow up on the James Lorrigan you found stock, although his middle name appears to start with an H not an M. And yes that is the death notice for Edward Ernest Lawrence in 1939 but if he's changed his name it wouldn't be surprising if he altered his date of birth also. That was my thinking anyway. And your suggestion of a close inspection of death certs for Amy and Ted is very sound nbrob and I will do that first. Don't why it didn't occur to me. Would anyone know reasons why a person would be struck of the electoral roll? Really value your input everybody. Thanks cslaw - 2018-07-01 08:36:00 |
| 11 | Remember to get printouts, not certificates. nbrob - 2018-07-01 08:44:00 |
| 12 | This message was deleted. farwest - 2018-07-01 08:50:00 |
| 13 | farwest wrote:
Can't find anything that matches his or her births or marriage in England at www.freebmd.org.uk Edited by stock at 10:25 am, Sun 1 Jul stock - 2018-07-01 10:25:00 |
| 14 | This message was deleted. farwest - 2018-07-01 12:34:00 |
| 15 | I guess you have these: There is a death for Lawrence LORRIGAN (combination of the 'two' men?) raffella - 2018-07-01 14:27:00 |
| 16 | Another check is the marriage and death printouts for their children to see what names they gave their father. It has me wondering at the gap between child 2 and child 3 being of some significance. nbrob - 2018-07-01 16:18:00 |
| 17 | raffella wrote:
Auckland Star, Volume XXXI, Issue 146, 21 June 1900 & other papers: There is a postscript (unrelated to the target family). On 26 October 1900 a daughter was born. In April 1901 the child's death was announced; but the child was "alive and well". Edited by stock at 8:20 pm, Sun 1 Jul stock - 2018-07-01 20:18:00 |
| 18 | cslaw wrote:
Typically they had died or left the electorate. stock - 2018-07-01 20:41:00 |
| 19 | Lots of input here, thanks everyone for your efforts. Very few photos of ted around. I'm told it was something he actively avoided. Farwest - do you know what the heading of the next box is? The one where the answer is "14 March 188 a number I can't make out, London, England". I had wondered if the gap between children could be attributed to him leaving town and then sending for Amy at a later date. It is also just as likely to be that she was alone for a bit and then started a new family. And just to complicate things further : James' eldest son Stan has Edward Lawrence listed as his father on the death certificate printout I have. cslaw - 2018-07-01 21:22:00 |
| 20 | cslaw wrote: & marriage with a typo: Edited by stock at 10:31 pm, Sun 1 Jul stock - 2018-07-01 22:20:00 |
| 21 | May be he spent a few years in HM Prison System? nbrob - 2018-07-01 22:59:00 |
| 22 | This message was deleted. farwest - 2018-07-02 14:43:00 |
| 23 | Not sure what, if anything, to make of this. Amy is named as mother of all 5. However she is listed as having been born in Hereford, then Kington, then Herefordshire, and Wales for the last 2. They were married in London, then Kington, then Puketapu twice and then Hawkes Bay. Amy and her first husband James were married on 4th Feb 1882. I am now totally confused and no closer to figuring out if James and Edward are the same person and wondering what others think? cslaw - 2018-07-05 09:46:00 |
| 24 | stock wrote: The only thing consistent with E E Lawrence is the inconsistency. He is either Lorigan or he stepped into his shoes. stock - 2018-07-05 11:09:00 |
| 25 | cslaw wrote:
Where was he buried? stock - 2018-07-05 11:09:00 |
| 26 | stock wrote:
Feilding In this record as Laurence, Edward Ernest stock - 2018-07-05 12:04:00 |
| 27 | This message was deleted. farwest - 2018-07-05 13:25:00 |
| 28 | "The only thing consistent with E E Lawrence is the inconsistency. He is either Lorigan or he stepped into his shoes." /quote] Thanks for your input stock. I am leaning this way now also. According to Edwards death records he had been in NZ for about 50 years and had somehow managed to marry Amy in Kington, England when he was 22 years old. But Amy married James here in NZ when they were both 22. cslaw - 2018-07-08 14:45:00 |
| 29 | Hi there. Y DNA results from tests taken by husband (descended from eldest son) and his second cousin (descended from a son in the next group of children) indicate that James and Edward are different people. I've been told that back in the day if people died while in prison there was no record kept of their death? And if this is true I am wondering if this was what happened to James. I cannot find any reference to his death using the BDM search engine. Thanks again to everyone who helped. cslaw - 2019-06-11 10:42:00 |
| 30 | That's great that you've been able to get the Y DNA tests done and solve one mystery! I see James Lorigan had several siblings who were also born in NZ. Have you traced each sibling, on the offchance James pops up in connection with one of them? For example, was James ever mentioned in a parent/sibling's will and/or their probate file (see Family Search), or perhaps he a guest at a wedding or family celebration and it was reported on in the newspaper (see Papers Past). Edit to add: It looks like James Lorigan's mother was widowed young and she remarried in 1882? If James was trying to evade authorities, perhaps he used his stepfather's surname (Brennan)? Edited by ed65 at 3:04 pm, Tue 11 Jun ed65 - 2019-06-11 15:01:00 |
| 31 | Looking at the NZ Police Gazettes, I see James' younger brother Henry Lorigan (b.1863) appears quite often (with photos) - mainly in relation to maintenance orders for his two sons but it's also recorded he was "fond of drink". Henry Lorigan used an alias "Thomas Burke". Maybe his brother James used an alias too? Perhaps the two brothers knocked about together, although I can't see any mention of James Lorrigan/Lorigan in the police gazettes. James' mother Bridget Mary Brennan died in 1924 but she left all her estate to her youngest son, (Lawrence) Bartholomew Lorrigan - and there's no mention of any other family members. Her son's affidavit on the probate file says Bridget was "born of Irish parents on the High Sea" - in case you didn't already know that :-) ed65 - 2019-06-11 15:44:00 |
