| 3451 | This message was deleted. fredrika - 2011-10-28 16:53:00 |
| 3452 | philafarinz wrote:
Hi Steven, Please educate me.
Mint unhinged - can be understood as a mint stamp onto which a stamp hinge was affixed but then removed rendering it Mint unhinged. In other words the stamp was Post Office fresh and then the stamp which was affixed into the Album with a stamp hinge.
The stamp was later removed from the Album and the hinge was removed using the phrase 'un-hinged'
Such a stamp is plainlly just mint and could surely not be called mint never hinged, once the original gum has been disturbed and MUH (mint unhinged) is then a misnomer. Some collectors interpret MUH as a mint stamp of which the stamp hinge was carefully removed. This causes a lot of problems when buying stamps on the net when buyer think they are getting pristine stamps and get previous hinged ones instead. Less worries for the one who collects only used Erich
I remember back in the 1970's when Most New Zealand stamp dealers used the term MNH = mint never hinged. Certainly when I worked at Laurie franks Ltd 1973-80 before opening my own shop it was always MNH. I don't know why but when the coloured pocket catalogues appeared the abbreviation got changed to MUH which can be confusing if somebody doesn't realise what the description is taken to mean.
I think I will use the term MNH in future and encourage others to do so too in order to avoid this problem. kiwisteven - 2011-10-28 23:26:00 |
| 3453 | Why on earth did NZ Post issue the Rugby World cup winners sheet with $1.90 stamps? They would have been much more popular if they had issued a sheet of 60 cent stamps so we could all use them on our mail or at least issue them with a $2.40 value which is the rate to France! Mind you if you tear one of these stamps out of the sheet it doesn't refer to the World cup win at all!
my last gripe with the sheet is that it is too wide to fit onto any standard stamp album page unless you mount it sideways. what a dumb size and shape. obviously not intended for postal use and not intended for collectors I think very few will sell and as the sheet has such a high premium price over face value, the catalogues won't even list it.
Not a gold medal winning sheet at all but really a damp squib! kiwisteven - 2011-10-28 23:40:00 |
| 3454 | gandalff4 wrote:
interested in comments of the "new stamp" released by nz post showing the rwc winners photo with 6 x $1.90 stamps and charging $19.90 for it !!
to my mind this is a real rip off and not a genuine philitalic item When grim reality of it missing the mark descends, maybe a $12 item offloaded to every PO to move what hasn't sold ? ;-) A 6 x 60c sheet as Kiwisteven suggested would have had far wider appeal How many ( or few) eager followers from overseas or locally are going to be scampering around trying to buy one of these $20 sheets in a few weeks time ? ;-) Edited by tmg at 3:00 am, Sat 29 Oct tmg - 2011-10-29 02:58:00 |
| 3455 | kiwisteven wrote:
I remember back in the 1970's when Most New Zealand stamp dealers used the term MNH = mint never hinged. Certainly when I worked at Laurie franks Ltd 1973-80 before opening my own shop it was always MNH. I don't know why but when the coloured pocket catalogues appeared the abbreviation got changed to MUH which can be confusing if somebody doesn't realise what the description is taken to mean.
I think I will use the term MNH in future and encourage others to do so too in order to avoid this problem. BRAVO Steven ! This acronym for Mint Never Hinged - MNH - is what it means .
The correct usage especially over the internet will go a far way for novice and advanced collector to buy or sell stamps correctly detailed items and in so doing avoid misunderstandings that often occur. I too have changed over to MNH from MUH many years ago, because some just like the misinterpretation for their own gain which is sadly prevalent to some who have clue about stamps.. Erich |
| 3456 | philafarinz wrote:
Have any of the dealers ever offered work to the youth via WINZ - washing sorting, teaching basis of philately ?
If I was a Dealer it would be No!!!
But If i did need a youth to work for me I would naturally go to the local stamp societies / clubs etc and ask for for recomendations .Christchurch for example has a junior stamp club a perfect feeding ground for an up and coming employee.Take a youth from the street and put the question to him / her what do you know about stamps? I would say "u likum" would be the number one answer, number two may be what are stamps?( Internet ,Email,Facebook,tweeting ,texting etc dont use stamps).Lets face it letter writing and mailing are a thing of the past to todays modern youth for the most part and I belive that NZ post are riding on the coat tails of Trademe for their profits.To have some nobody recommended by Winz plundering with sticky fingers amongst my stamps ?
No thankyou. Edited by rebel58 at 10:18 am, Sat 29 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-29 10:04:00 |
| 3457 | It may sound all doom and gloom for stamp collecting and our modern society but the smart Dealer and Collector can take advantage by using these more modern forms of comunication to their advantage eg Scott has all of their catalogues on disks ,SG you need a sack barrow to cart around their lot.
And people will always be interested in old stuff,and as long as History is still taught in school. Stamp collecting will be still alive and more lucrative than it is now.Also everything comes and goes and then comes back again look at China stamp collecting has taken off in a big way Millions of new collectors although they only collect China at the moment.Genuine printings and reprints are all the rage and the prices for chinese stamps are going sky high but sooner or later they will take more interest in world wide stamps and another stamp boom will begin. rebel58 - 2011-10-29 11:32:00 |
| 3458 | rebel58 wrote:
If I was a Dealer it would be No!!! But If i did need a youth to work for me I would naturally go to the local stamp societies / clubs etc and ask for for recomendations .Christchurch for example has a junior stamp club a perfect feeding ground for an up and coming employee.Take a youth from the street and put the question to him / her what do you know about stamps? I would say "u likum" would be the number one answer, number two may be what are stamps?( Internet ,Email,Facebook,tweeting ,texting etc dont use stamps).Lets face it letter writing and mailing are a thing of the past to todays modern youth for the most part and I belive that NZ post are riding on the coat tails of Trademe for their profits.To have some nobody recommended by Winz plundering with sticky fingers amongst my stamps ?
No thankyou. Your concerns are well noted likewise surely echoed by many.
I too in all honesty can say that I have never heard of even a partnership in the stamp trade which lasted decades, there would be exceptions although. As you mentioned, the youth email, text etc. so an idea to use this modern communication medium like our PC to employ youth to search,
Evaluate aspects in philately and learn to how to gain knowledge to buy or sell.
They could learn in their own environment in their own time and need not be near your prize collection. Presently there is the question about minimum Wage.
Could a youngster be empowered to earn his employer the minimum wage in the stamp trade ? A good question with probably many 'ifs' and complex answers. |
| 3459 | kiwisteven wrote:
I remember back in the 1970's when Most New Zealand stamp dealers used the term MNH = mint never hinged. Certainly when I worked at Laurie franks Ltd 1973-80 before opening my own shop it was always MNH. I don't know why but when the coloured pocket catalogues appeared the abbreviation got changed to MUH which can be confusing if somebody doesn't realise what the description is taken to mean.
I think I will use the term MNH in future and encourage others to do so too in order to avoid this problem. The problem then is the publishers of the Catalogues and the Dealers that sell them.
Perhaps the Stamp Dealers Ass can rectify this problem after all it should be corrected/standerdised by the shakers and movers? rebel58 - 2011-10-29 12:32:00 |
| 3460 | I have just looked in my CP Cat and two terms are used Mint (for Decimals) and Unhinged mint (for Pre Decimals) so now we have UHM,MNH,MUH and Mint that all mean a stamp that has never been hinged.Another intersting piont that I will make is that pre 1873 Mint never hinged stamps or Mint Hinged in ACS are not mentioned or priced.Re page 2 , 1855 - 1862 Mint stamps may have part or no gum. Edited by rebel58 at 12:58 pm, Sat 29 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-29 12:47:00 |
| 3461 | No matter where you find the term MUH or how fashionable it may have been in the past the correct terminology Mint Never hinged can only be determined as such. Of course older mint material is mostly hinged as was the practise in the early collecting years and premiums apply to mint never hinged with original gum. Any catalogue should be seen as a guide so it gives a lot of leeway to common sense, fact remains fact. |
| 3462 | Just curious, my father designed various stamps for NZ back in the 60's and 70's when all the artwork was produced by hand. I'm pretty sure he still has all the original artwork i.e. the final artwork before production. Is it worth anything ? fxx99 - 2011-10-29 16:16:00 |
| 3463 | rebel58 wrote:
The problem then is the publishers of the Catalogues and the Dealers that sell them.
Perhaps the Stamp Dealers Ass can rectify this problem after all it should be corrected/standerdised by the shakers and movers? It's all a matter of Geography. Different terms have been traditionally used for the same thing, in different countries or areas. One can see this from the on-line lists.
In the UK they take the lead of SG, and use "Unmounted Mint", abbreviated to U/M or UM.
In Australia the usual term is Mint Unhinged. (MUH)
In NZ, we mainly use Unhinged Mint (UHM)
In USA the usual term is Mint, Never Hinged. (MNH)
There was little problem up until around 2000, because most dealings were internal, within each region, so everyone knew what the terms meant. And then Ebay emerged, and force-fed us with the USA "MNH" term, causing the present problem.
I doubt if you are going to get everyone to change to this, as I can't see the UK dealers and collectors changing from their preferred "Unmounted mint" term, which is the one I personally prefer, although I use the "UHM" reference in my lists.
So, there lies the problem. And if the United Nations can't get the world to live in harmony, what chance have we got on this particular issue? |
| 3464 | rebel58 wrote:
It may sound all doom and gloom for stamp collecting and our modern society but the smart Dealer and Collector can take advantage by using these more modern forms of comunication to their advantage eg Scott has all of their catalogues on disks ,SG you need a sack barrow to cart around their lot.
And people will always be interested in old stuff,and as long as History is still taught in school. Stamp collecting will be still alive and more lucrative than it is now.Also everything comes and goes and then comes back again look at China stamp collecting has taken off in a big way Millions of new collectors although they only collect China at the moment.Genuine printings and reprints are all the rage and the prices for chinese stamps are going sky high but sooner or later they will take more interest in world wide stamps and another stamp boom will begin. or in the case of SG pay a sub at their online catalogue at allworldstamps dot com after the free to view pics time expires on there .. hardcopy cats are probably the most up to date & widest in coverage though.. tmg - 2011-10-29 21:04:00 |
| 3465 | philafarinz wrote:
No matter where you find the term MUH or how fashionable it may have been in the past the correct terminology Mint Never hinged can only be determined as such. Of course older mint material is mostly hinged as was the practise in the early collecting years and premiums apply to mint never hinged with original gum. Any catalogue should be seen as a guide so it gives a lot of leeway to common sense, fact remains fact. There is a fairly long & wide history of pencil marking on backs of Mint Stamps which goes as far as expertising dealer signatures & marks by dealers in Europe, in some cases buyers paying more for some expertised items .. depending on the item, scarcity, age etc with coverage on many boards, including NZ, stampboards and elsewhere. Obviously where the item is different from when issued in condition, the fact should be disclosed in describing it's condition Edited by tmg at 9:10 pm, Sat 29 Oct tmg - 2011-10-29 21:08:00 |
| 3466 | dunedinstamps wrote:
It's all a matter of Geography. Different terms have been traditionally used for the same thing, in different countries or areas. One can see this from the on-line lists. Quite right. So why not use ** for Mint Never Hinged as most European Catalogues do, excluding GB.
I would welcome using symbols ** or * o in my lists instead of the Letters which are differently understood in various other Countries. Then again some may not even want to understand symbols. Symbols do create uniform understanding wherever you are on this planet, why not in philately. Stamps have already a variety of symbols in various Countries for different postal rates. Clearly common ground should sought in global presentation, solely because of criss-cross internet philatelic trade. |
| 3467 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-30 10:52:00 |
| 3468 | donaldo wrote:
but arent we getting away from the original problem where gum had pencil writing on it and yet was still trying to be classified by the original seller as unhinged mint!!!!--
of course the ideal situation is for either gibbons or scotts [or both] to take the lead and correct the present vague interpretations Well you have really answered your own question.It is UHM or MNH (depending on your catalogue) with pencil notation on back.Dont need to be a brain surgeon to work that out. Edited by rebel58 at 11:49 am, Sun 30 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-30 11:34:00 |
| 3469 | Hint !!!!! HINGE. A stamp can only be hinged if a hinge is used.If a fly has a terd on a Never hinged stamp it is MNH / UHM with a Fly terd on it. Edited by rebel58 at 12:18 pm, Sun 30 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-30 12:16:00 |
| 3470 | We need a new term - MUM = Mint Unmarked! paulmc - 2011-10-30 15:19:00 |
| 3471 | fxx99 wrote:
Just curious, my father designed various stamps for NZ back in the 60's and 70's when all the artwork was produced by hand. I'm pretty sure he still has all the original artwork i.e. the final artwork before production. Is it worth anything ? Yes this would be interesting to many collectors. Perhaps you could post some more information here an some more knowledgeable people might have more advise for you. stak - 2011-10-30 15:24:00 |
| 3472 | donaldo wrote:
but arent we getting away from the original problem where gum had pencil writing on it and yet was still trying to be classified by the original seller as unhinged mint!!!!--
of course the ideal situation is for either gibbons or scotts [or both] to take the lead and correct the present vague interpretations In the Introduction portion of Scott (not being force-fed) it states: >> A never Hinged Stamp will have full original gum that will have NO hinge Mark or disturbance. The presence on an expertzxer's mark does not disqualify a stamp from this designation<<
The latter part is still much under discusion but it would enlighten many collectors if they just read the information on Condition and has sample images. The answer is then that any monogram, written numbers or lettering disturbs the gum and renders the stam as Mint. not Mint never hinged or MUH. Expertising Marks or sometimes owner marks are stamped on the back, never written.. |
| 3473 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-30 15:44:00 |
| 3474 | fxx99 wrote:
Just curious, my father designed various stamps for NZ back in the 60's and 70's when all the artwork was produced by hand. I'm pretty sure he still has all the original artwork i.e. the final artwork before production. Is it worth anything ? If it is 1960 pictoials, i would have some interest in the items
Bronsyn 1 bronsyn1 - 2011-10-30 19:35:00 |
| 3475 | gandalff4 wrote:
interested in comments of the "new stamp" released by nz post showing the rwc winners photo with 6 x $1.90 stamps and charging $19.90 for it !!
to my mind this is a real rip off and not a genuine philitalic item Would be interesting to have other's comments here on the above. |
| 3476 | The member deleted this message. muzz8 - 2011-10-31 19:30:00 |
| 3477 | muzz8 wrote:
this is the correct term---maybe not worth as much as Post office fresh UHM/MNH but still never been hinged ,so is UHM with(fault) short corner- pulled perf- toning-pencil id on reverse etc etc etc-the amount of fault will determine price-maybe as low as MINT prices for bad faults- I do not consider I.D. pencil mark on a rare stamp (variety) that is otherwise perfect as being of serious consideration, and is basically of no consequence
a scratch on the bumper of ferrari When the gum is disturbed it can no longer be called mint never hinged (MNH=**) nor the misnomer MUN or UHM and is MINT to various degrees of condition as you have mentioned. Your Ferrari with a scratch on the bumper may not change into a VW but a new buyer would want a hefty discount, same applies to stamps. So once the gum has a speck of toning, writing or whatever caused the original gum to be disturbed (bar expertising mark at present) it is Mint, never MNH. A pulled perf does not interfere with the gum but diminishes the value of an otherwise MNH copy. |
| 3478 | philafarinz wrote:
When the gum is disturbed it can no longer be called mint never hinged (MNH=**) nor the misnomer MUN or UHM and is MINT to various degrees of condition as you have mentioned. Your Ferrari with a scratch on the bumper may not change into a VW but a new buyer would want a hefty discount, same applies to stamps. So once the gum has a speck of toning, writing or whatever caused the original gum to be disturbed (bar expertising mark at present) it is Mint, never MNH. A pulled perf does not interfere with the gum but diminishes the value of an otherwise MNH copy.
You are making up terminoligy to suit yourself Hinged is what it means Mint never hinged is also what it means.Hinge is the the key word!!!Double Gummed stamps therefore can never be sold as MNH because the origional gum has been disturbed.(sorry just going by your rules).A phillistine that holds a MNH stamp without tweezers but naked fingers has according to your definition has disterbed the gum..A MNH stamp that has had the pencil notation removed cannot be MNH.Infact with your interiptation no postage stamp that is in a collection or ever produced can be used or described as MNH.Congradulations single handed you have changed stamp collecting terminolgy forever or is this only for your own use ?
. Edited by rebel58 at 11:22 am, Tue 1 Nov rebel58 - 2011-11-01 11:20:00 |
| 3479 | No, not my own terminology but read Entry #3472 again and you may discover that the Scott catalogue defines Mint Never Hinged and has been around longer than most of us. Eurpean Catalogues use ** and Michel defines ** as all gummed values being in the condition as purchased over a Post Office Counter. Gibbons states:- under GUM - ..the more obvious the hinge marks, the greater the discount which refers t Mint. The Term 'Unmounted' (In Gibbons) refers to a Mint Never Hinged stamp that had never been mounted. This may have caused the misnomers as MUH (mint un-hinged) or UHM (unhinged mint) So it is not a fabrication to suit myself.
BTW any collector would do well in reading and absorbing the introductory pages of any Catalogue - terminology aside. |
| 3480 | Sorry but it is you I have quoted or your interpritation of Scott etc.Here it goes again in case you have forgotten..
When the gum is disturbed it can no longer be called mint never hinged (MNH=**) nor the misnomer MUN or UHM and is MINT to various degrees of condition as you have mentioned. Your Ferrari with a scratch on the bumper may not change into a VW but a new buyer would want a hefty discount, same applies to stamps. So once the gum has a speck of toning, writing or whatever caused the original gum to be disturbed (bar expertising mark at present) it is Mint, never MNH. A pulled perf does not interfere with the gum but diminishes the value of an otherwise MNH copy. Edited by rebel58 at 2:47 pm, Tue 1 Nov rebel58 - 2011-11-01 14:47:00 |
| 3481 | I do agree with Steven and on all my new listings I will be using MNH
(Mint never Hinged).It will be some time before I change the relists. rebel58 - 2011-11-01 14:54:00 |
| 3482 | Well then, you are on the road of better philatelic understanding. Can anyone on this site state what Sybols or acronyms are used in Asian Catalogues ** = MNH or ?? |
| 3483 | The member deleted this message. donaldo - 2011-11-01 18:04:00 |
| 3484 | Unused no Gum = MNG = (*) which should be seen a Mint No Gum - the gum was removed (disturbed). It may have had a hinge but still remains mint with no gum at all. Of course some older issues of some Countries had their gum removed because of the sulphur content, though normally noted in the catalogues for that issue. |
| 3485 | philafarinz wrote:
Unused no Gum = MNG = (*) which should be seen a Mint No Gum - the gum was removed (disturbed). It may have had a hinge but still remains mint with no gum at all. Of course some older issues of some Countries had their gum removed because of the sulphur content, though normally noted in the catalogues for that issue. So what are the stamps called that China issued with no Gum ,can you make up a classification for them?Like MNGBRMNH. rebel58 - 2011-11-01 19:01:00 |
| 3486 | rebel58 wrote:
So what are the stamps called that China issued with no Gum ,can you make up a classification for them?Like MNGBRMNH. mite need a whole new messageboard for all these new classifications soon & a special index to help any poor collector trying to work them all out ;-) tmg - 2011-11-02 00:36:00 |
| 3487 | philafarinz wrote:
Well then, you are on the road of better philatelic understanding. Can anyone on this site state what Sybols or acronyms are used in Asian Catalogues ** = MNH or ?? which dialect of Chinese or Indian would you like those in ? ;-) tmg - 2011-11-02 00:38:00 |
| 3488 | tmg wrote:
which dialect of Chinese or Indian would you like those in ? ;-)
I have a MNH Chicken that I use to decipher the chicken scratchings on the Chinese stamps but it looked at an American stamp the other day and according to the rules it has been disturbed, and I have had to reclassify it as MH.
I am devistated.
Anyone interested in a mint Chinese literate chicken? rebel58 - 2011-11-02 06:57:00 |
| 3489 | Can anyone on this site state what Sybols or acronyms are used in Asian Catalogues ** = MNH or ... ?? This is a question to any Asian collector, perhaps others can learn too. |
| 3490 | philafarinz wrote:
Can anyone on this site state what Sybols or acronyms are used in Asian Catalogues ** = MNH or ... ?? This is a question to any Asian collector, perhaps others can learn too. I would offer you my chicken as he would know but my Loghorn is a Bantam so it is a mint forgery.I have had to class it as MHCF. rebel58 - 2011-11-02 09:59:00 |
| 3491 | rebel58 wrote:
I have a MNH Chicken that I use to decipher the chicken scratchings on the Chinese stamps but it looked at an American stamp the other day and according to the rules it has been disturbed, and I have had to reclassify it as MH.
I am devistated.
Anyone interested in a mint Chinese literate chicken?
would you like fries with that ? gandalff4 - 2011-11-02 10:38:00 |
| 3492 | This is a Community thread for questions and answers, looks as though some are wanting to advertise theselves but what are you advertising ? |
| 3493 | Anybody know if a 1975 3 cent health stamp with a small orange circle in the tree is worth anything? kiwigrove - 2011-11-02 14:49:00 |
| 3494 | gandalff4 wrote:
would you like fries with that ? A wonder it hasn't been perfinned & thrown in the boiling pot long before now ;-) Edited by tmg at 3:34 pm, Wed 2 Nov tmg - 2011-11-02 15:33:00 |
| 3495 | philafarinz wrote:
Can anyone on this site state what Sybols or acronyms are used in Asian Catalogues ** = MNH or ... ?? This is a question to any Asian collector, perhaps others can learn too. Scott or SG may have a specialist publication which might be a good guide - think have heard of another - a catalogue by the name of Yang ??? comes to mind. tmg - 2011-11-02 15:36:00 |
| 3496 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-11-02 15:53:00 |
| 3497 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-11-02 15:59:00 |
| 3498 | tmg wrote:
Scott or SG may have a specialist publication which might be a good guide - think have heard of another - a catalogue by the name of Yang ??? comes to mind. Yes thank you, there is a Yang catalogue and they also use MNH for mint never hinged. |
| 3499 | donaldo wrote:
ok we tend to not agree on the hinging or non hinging of stamps now if that stamp also had visible toning would it or could it be included as unhinged mint [plus with the pencil writing} We do not have to agree but when describing philatelic items all aspects to quality especially those which one can not see in a scan should be noted.
A toned stamp especially when it goes with a hefty price tag I would like to see the gummed side and scrutiny of the detail supplied. Communication is the best resolve. Toning similar to a written pencil mark disturbed the original gum and thus the stamp which was Mint Never Hinged (MNH) is now only Mint.
Obviously of much lesser value than an otherwise MNH stamp. Toning is one major problem with Mint Never Hinged stamps and those who respect their value do try to avoid damage, as dealer you know this and see it often. |
| 3500 | This message was deleted. muzz8 - 2011-11-02 18:53:00 |
