STAMP CLUB
| # | Post |
|---|---|
| 3401 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-15 11:19:00 |
| 3402 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-15 11:23:00 |
| 3403 | muzz8 wrote: I agree you cant play on the words MNH/UHM is what it means. rebel58 - 2011-10-15 15:33:00 |
| 3404 | A storm in a tea cup muzza8, and you have got totally carried away and acting like a "Drama Queen". At the end of the day it is what the recipient is happy to accept, and if they are non the wiser about the various categories of 'Mint' stamps then a reputable Dealer or Collector if selling items that they consider aren't UHM, should advise any buyer of faults, differences etc. If I was ever to sell such an item to anyone on Trademe where the stamps had pencil marks that cannot be easily removed without effecting the gum, I would definitely not describe them ever as UHM. If someone is selling an item and over describes it - making it seem better than what it actually is, then they are doing a disservice to any buyer. This is about integrity, fairness - doing the right thing, and that everyone should be in a win win situation. Like life, some people have different interpretations on things - and that is okay, but it is good that in the regards to Stamps and Coins, that there are various gradings - but to settle this once and for all, and you can advise those reputable dealers and collectors that have been reading your guff and support you - to look at the Auction number of the items I will put up for sale next week, [and I will return to this site and put the Auction numbers down as I expect these major reputable dealers to hopefully bid or buy, or comment on these so called UHM stamps. How can any major reputable dealer or collector give their expertise advice without physically viewing the item in question! Who the heck would give such a strong opinion, without physically viewing the goods. But by my displaying scans of the stamps in question - this being the next best thing than having the items physically in front of you, everyone can therefore make a more informed and genuine comment on the stamps in question. I cannot get the pencil marks off the stamps - without disturbing the gum, the pencil marks were never in one place on the stamps, but all over the place. The stamps in question with the pencil marks were not just on the older stamps, they went right to the 1980s. I can understand if they are older material - up to the early part of 1900s to have the pencil marks - but why would anyone want to put pencil marks on the modern stamps and think that it would enhance it! How could that pencil mark enhance a stamp that used to be perfect UHM? So I'll take some of these stamps home to scan, and put them up for sale on Trademe next week - I will show both sides of the stamps that show the pencil marks [and also the toning]. They will be at bargain prices for these 'major reputable dealers and experts' to hopefully purchase, and or especially comment on. loision - 2011-10-15 18:56:00 |
| 3405 | muzz8 wrote:
>>It is totally unreasonable to value otherwise perfect stamps MNH/UHM by half just because they have a light pencil mark-maybe decrease by small margin say 5%-perhaps if it was a more serious fault it would depreciate to the value of MINT stamp ... MNH- Mint never hinged Post Office fresh gets downgraded to plain Mint. The Post Office provides 100% perfect over the counter stamps. If there is writing on the back is is not !00% nor would it be 100% if on the front. But hey, you or anyone else can collect as they please the crunch comes when a reputable points out the writing on the back and says if they were only mint never hinged. Of course some may say they are stamp not gum colectors well I suppose it is about quality of a collection and if mint never hinged with orignal gum such stamps should remain unadulterated. Quality defines a value of a collection so do not write on the back of CALS. philafarinz - 2011-10-15 19:09:00 |
| 3406 | loision wrote:
Well said and laid out. Edited by philafarinz at 7:24 pm, Sat 15 Oct philafarinz - 2011-10-15 19:24:00 |
| 3407 | A lot of self promotion going on here all against Trademe rules.This sort of thing gets threads removed. rebel58 - 2011-10-15 22:30:00 |
| 3408 | philafarinz wrote:
Think a new category in the grading stakes mite be needed - MWPM just to clarify things ;-) If the kids have managed to fit a whole masterpiece on the back - then it becomes an Art Category item with a pretty picture & NZ Post value on the other side for the supply of the raw material the Art has been performed on ;-) Edited by tmg at 11:03 pm, Sat 15 Oct tmg - 2011-10-15 22:59:00 |
| 3409 | donaldo wrote:
John Key & Phil Goff autographed specimens might eventually have some value though in time, as with some unknown as yet undiscovered famous persons.. ;-) Edited by tmg at 11:07 pm, Sat 15 Oct tmg - 2011-10-15 23:06:00 |
| 3410 | tmg wrote:
It is all about getting the job done. A stamp dealer whould be happy to find premium quality stamps in a collection to resell. philafarinz - 2011-10-16 10:25:00 |
| 3411 | This message was deleted. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 11:37:00 |
| 3412 | This message was deleted. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 11:39:00 |
| 3413 | This message was deleted. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 11:42:00 |
| 3414 | This message was deleted. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 11:45:00 |
| 3415 | If UHM stands for unhinged mint, could it not be understood as a mint stamp of which the hinge or hinge remnant was removed ? The latter would render the stamp just Mint. I realize many of the old school collectors are more familiar with that UHM term, however terms in philately have progressed and one should avoid misunderstandings. philafarinz - 2011-10-16 14:17:00 |
| 3416 | Here goes a play on words.I go to the post office and buy a stamp but it has a pulled perf .It is still UHM/MNH.And It is still Post Office fresh.Most Honest dealers will descibe a stamp as MNH wilth pencil notation on back ,pulled perf etc and show a scan if need be.To much is being read into this and I thought I had left all this rubbish in Kindergarten. Edited by rebel58 at 2:19 pm, Sun 16 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-16 14:18:00 |
| 3417 | philafarinz wrote: Edited by rebel58 at 2:37 pm, Sun 16 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-16 14:34:00 |
| 3418 | >>If you buy a stamp that has a pencil notation on the back and it was purchased from a random seller whos fault is it? Yours for not asking questions.<< Very true. philafarinz - 2011-10-16 15:34:00 |
| 3419 | No you're not over it Muzza - as you went and ranted to me in heaps of emails, and without me knowing, you then started to contact Dealers and collectors venting, and then coming back in ranting emails without telling me who these people were! At first, I thought we were having a light banter, and it was funny [and to me it still is] - and my response to you was in a joking way, not realising until the 6th email that you were very serious and very grumpy responses. Heck all over a little stamp Muzza. After our family knowing you for over 30 years - well I was pretty shocked that this 'little stamp thing' could take on such a dramatic tone - on your part. What a performance - you should win a Oscar at the awards for "best dramatic performance for a storm in a tea cup". So a little birdie told me on the grapevine you then started to vent and huff and puff on Trademe message board - so I thought it deserved a response. So be truthful - you are the one that has made this totally personal and made a 'storm in a teacup', instead of coming to see me face to face to discuss the issue in a reasonable manner, over a cuppa tea and biscuit like I had asked! Covering the tracks, cor talk about the pot calling the kettle black, putting these over as UHM - seems pretty unfair to me, and I'd never treat my Trademe clients this way. No worries Muzza - at the end of the day let the Trademe collectors give their expert comments, if they can be bothered [yawn]. Even if the stamp has no hinge - but rust, it shouldn't be considered UHM or expected to fetch a premium price. I'll put the items on that has caused the disagreements - everyone can then see what Muzza has demanded that I MUST ACCEPT THAT THEY SHOULD BE SOLD AS UHM, and what I see in these stamps - I cannot sell as UHM. There is a thing called the "Fair Trading Act", which no doubt Trademe has the rules somewhere in their site of this, in which it gives the standard NZ Laws - good recommendations for Traders selling on this site. And it is exactly that - Fair Trading - very simple. If you are knowledgeable on - in the case we are talking about Stamps - that you know there is a fault in that product you are selling, but you deliberately sell it without advising a potential buyer - you can and should be liable for 'misconduct in trade', and the purchaser has all rights to ask for a replacement of the same or similar goods, a part or full refund, and that is very good system. Some sellers do a clever thing and don't comment on the stamp but show both sides and it is buyer beware as well. Muzza you would not accept that I wanted to tell any potential clients that I didn't consider the items UHM because of the pencil marks and the rust - which you either didn't see or think they were a problem. If people are happy to pay top dollar for a stamp with a deep pencil mark on it, and other faults like rust / toning and pay the UHM price - well that is their choice too, but personally for me - I could never sell something as UHM and ask for top dollar, especially if it has anything that disturbs the gum. The particular stamps in question are Falkland Island Dependencies and South Georgia. I like a particular NZ Dealer's catalogue, which on these countries gives a price for UHM and LHM. The UHM price on even some of the modern sets in the 1960s and 1970s he lists LHM at half the price of a UHM set! I'll scan the items within the week, and come back with the Auction numbers and welcome genuine comments and views. This can only be good for this industry and it will be hopefully be a learning curve for new or amateur collectors. Incidently if one has sold a multitude of stamps on Trademe doesn't that classify you as a dealer - be it perhaps a part-time one as well? Many Dealers have come on to Trademe as they have been forced to, and they have to be as competitive to survive in business - as the Trademe public look to get value for their money - this collector trade constantly evolving.loision - 2011-10-16 18:33:00 |
| 3420 | The member deleted this message. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 19:56:00 |
| 3421 | The member deleted this message. muzz8 - 2011-10-16 20:02:00 |
| 3422 | UHM, and MNH, mean unhinged mint, and mint never hinged (used more-or-less synonymously). Nothing more, nothing less. Anything else that may affect value in the eyes of a buyer, including a pencil mark, should be mentioned in the listing, otherwise one is risking a legitimate complaint along the lines of "hidden faults". Better still, for more valuable stamps, give scans front-and-back. Generally, stamps on Trademe are absurdly overrated. I see many stamps that would score about 30 on the PSE scale (the main grading system in the USA) described as fine or very fine. PSE requires scores of 70 and 80 for those designations. Pretty serious, when stamp values can be exponentially related to condition. 2345678 - 2011-10-17 11:17:00 |
| 3423 | Hi '2345678' I note that you are packing-wise in your detail and the P+P bit made the moment. philafarinz - 2011-10-17 15:58:00 |
| 3424 | 2345678 wrote: It is really buyer beware in most cases but the bargins are always out there.Asking the right questions and asking for extra scans are tools that a buyer can use plus feedback ratings.Personally I have very narrow collecting fields,NZ FFQ,s,Island overprints of NZ stamps and more recently Manchuko and Japanese overprints on stamps of China.All of the above I specialise and are works in progress.I am at the stage now that I have been known to buy an entire collection for one stamp.The rest are rubbish to me and I flick them off on Trademe. rebel58 - 2011-10-18 10:29:00 |
| 3425 | I agree with people that MUH etc is exactly what it says. Mint unhinged. A seller however should always add any further relevant information that might alter the value of an item such as toning, crease, thin etc. If a pencil mark can be removed with a rubber this should be done before sale. if it can't be removed then the honest seller should mention "pencil mark on reverse". kiwisteven - 2011-10-19 21:28:00 |
| 3426 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-20 10:15:00 |
| 3427 | donaldo wrote: rebel58 - 2011-10-20 10:52:00 |
| 3428 | kiwisteven wrote:
Hi Steven, Please educate me. In other words the stamp was Post Office fresh and then the stamp which was affixed into the Album with a stamp hinge. Some collectors interpret MUH as a mint stamp of which the stamp hinge was carefully removed. This causes a lot of problems when buying stamps on the net when buyer think they are getting pristine stamps and get previous hinged ones instead. Less worries for the one who collects only used Erich philafarinz - 2011-10-20 13:23:00 |
| 3429 | New topic... fake, counterfeit and illegal stamps on trademe. There seems to be a couple of tm sellers regularly making hay off these, from naive collectors, or more likely non-collectors who see pretty pictures of their favourite musician/sports star/whatever. When a seller says their stamp-like labels were "issued by Tchad", for example, fully knowing that inscription on the labels is false, that's fraud. Or creating a fake pacific island (complete with a fake web page to refer to), a fake biography for fake leaders, falsely claiming that his labels portray scenes of the island (actually, buddy, that lighthouse is Green Point, Cape Town.). That's fraud. This trade has been condemned by the UPU, postal authorities and philatelic organizations worldwide. Yet trademe refuses to act, even when I point to items that have been individually condemned through UPU information circulars (Sella, otoh, has acted very quickly a couple of times). Disappointing, to say the least, to see New Zealanders so actively involved in this trade. Does anyone from Trademe read these boards? Why does Trademe not act? 2345678 - 2011-10-21 15:44:00 |
| 3430 | Maybe the best approach would be if one could see such fakes or counterfeits on in this thread for others to see as well.or the link to be aware of the seller. Bear in mind some advanced collectors buy these for reference purposes. philafarinz - 2011-10-21 20:55:00 |
| 3431 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-21 21:22:00 |
| 3432 | This message was deleted. fredrika - 2011-10-22 09:50:00 |
| 3433 | 2345678 wrote: Edited by rebel58 at 11:30 am, Sat 22 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-22 11:21:00 |
| 3434 | >>Forgeries on the other hand I find quite fasinating and in some cases have some collectable value.. So there is a plain continuance of forgeries on the market. How would you feel if you brought your collection on which you spent time and money to a dealer for a valuation and he tells you - they are forgeries worth a mere fraction of what you put into them ? philafarinz - 2011-10-22 14:09:00 |
| 3435 | philafarinz wrote: Edited by rebel58 at 8:46 am, Sun 23 Oct rebel58 - 2011-10-23 08:34:00 |
| 3436 | Hey, knock yourself out, that's one way to look at it. philafarinz - 2011-10-23 12:22:00 |
| 3437 | NZ Post quick off the mark. Plus a good mark up on face value. twg1935 - 2011-10-24 14:29:00 |
| 3438 | This message was deleted. fredrika - 2011-10-24 20:13:00 |
| 3439 | Have any of the dealers ever offered work to the youth via WINZ - washing sorting, teaching basis of philately ? Edited by philafarinz at 8:51 am, Wed 26 Oct philafarinz - 2011-10-26 08:50:00 |
| 3440 | philafarinz wrote: rebel58 - 2011-10-26 10:01:00 |
| 3441 | I would certainly give it some in depth consideration. philafarinz - 2011-10-26 10:48:00 |
| 3442 | I once asked a collectables dealer whether he would consider employing a volunteer and he said that it would be too risky having someone that they didn't know in a shop where there are so many small items that could easily be stolen. paulmc - 2011-10-26 14:34:00 |
| 3443 | donaldo wrote:
I have no problem with legitimate stamps issued by Chad, listed in Stanley Gibbons catalogues. Likewise, there's nothing wrong with cinderella items, so long as there's no attempt to disguise them as legitimate postage stamps (for example, by displaying the name of legitimate countries). The problem is fake stamps, using either real or false country names or regions, being passed off as postage stamps. Often being used to raise funds for criminal enterprises. Condemned by philatelic organizations and postal authorities world wide. Banned from exhibitions (including dealer stands) by philatelic organizations worldwide. As (very partially) listed in UPU advisory circulars; http://www.upu.int/en/activities/philately/circulars.html. Typical quote (from an Azerbaijan advisory); "We utterly condemn such activities, which damage our reputation and image, particularly as some of these illegal issues are contrary to Azerbaijani cultural values .... As such practices could harm the image of our country and the philatelic sector, we would ask that you kindly bring the matter to the attention of stamp collectors, catalogue editors, and all the relevant authorities, in order to prevent the purchase, sale or collection of these illegal stamps." Strong words indeed, and the UPU has similarly strong advisories from dozens of other victim countries. Yet this kind of material continues to be sold with impunity on trademe?? 2345678 - 2011-10-26 15:06:00 |
| 3444 | paulmc wrote:
Indeed, that happens too easily. however hardly any dealer would give a complete stanger that free hand. Youngsters at a certain age want to learn and many spend a lot of time on the internet doing what the like best. Such a young person need not infringe your shopbase they can possible be motivated to buy or sell philatelic items via the net. Of course with guidance they could be 'snifferdogs' to point out forgeries illegal UPU defined stamps as just mentioned by 2345678. Adding, that again needs a bit of knowledge. Why a bit because search the web there are possibly hundres of internet site showing forgeries. Before the computer we all trained ourselves in our area of collecting but youngsters today are keen lerners. Edited by philafarinz at 4:06 pm, Wed 26 Oct philafarinz - 2011-10-26 16:03:00 |
| 3445 | 2345678 wrote:
Your link got me here:- http://www.upu.int/en/activities/philately/circulars.html. It is a pity in their UPU Circilars are no images to what these illegals look like ! philafarinz - 2011-10-26 16:20:00 |
| 3446 | Is there a Philately Exchange site or Forum specifically for the exchange of stamps in New Zealand ? philafarinz - 2011-10-27 17:49:00 |
| 3447 | This message was deleted. donaldo - 2011-10-27 17:58:00 |
| 3448 | >>well my 4 'kids' all worked for me plus several of their friends and i also employed many youngsters over the years---no problems with control as my father was a school teacher way back---and i go back 40 years full time dealing<< Well that is admirable but do think that it is possibly today to employ youngsters with the focus on their development of self-esteem and them having a paid job and what is beyond involvemwent in philately for them. ?. philafarinz - 2011-10-27 19:32:00 |
| 3449 | interested in comments of the "new stamp" released by nz post showing the rwc winners photo with 6 x $1.90 stamps and charging $19.90 for it !! gandalff4 - 2011-10-28 09:25:00 |
| 3450 | I also trotted off to our local Main Post Office outlet and sadly no such sheet was available, of course Whangerei is not a major Center like the others mentioned where these were to be distributed. It would also have been good for collectors if the issue date of such a Sheet was postponed just a few days. We would then have had the opporunity for collectors to get their own first day issues off to their pals wherever, then again the over paid postage applied may not have been right !! The answer to your question however may lie where the money is going to collectors pay-up. Edited by philafarinz at 12:13 pm, Fri 28 Oct philafarinz - 2011-10-28 12:13:00 |
