lakeview3 wrote:

happy to get a loan over what? Having all your course costs, food and accommodation paid for?

Hardly.

I'd be interested to hear from others who trained back then as to their recollections. It's good to read about what they got and how much was provided, but unless I was "there" I can't really translate that to real life.

kitty179 - 2021-08-11 17:53:00

kitty179 wrote:

I'd be interested to hear from others who trained back then as to their recollections. It's good to read about what they got and how much was provided, but unless I was "there" I can't really translate that to real life.

I am merely trying to point out just WHY some people were able to get ahead faster ‘back in the day’. I was one of the last few people to have my University education paid for. Something that no doubt made it easier for me to buy my first house in my mid 20s. Because I wasn’t saddled with a huge loan like the young ones are these days.

Edited by lakeview3 at 6:12 pm, Wed 11 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 18:11:00

lakeview3 wrote:

happy to get a loan over what? Having all your course costs, food and accommodation paid for?

Hardly.

You seem to be ommitting a very important detail, yes there were courses, but those nurses were learning in the hospital, nursing, they were paid for the work they were doing, they didn't have their food and accomodation paid for, it was subsidised and not a hell of a lot.

Edited by maddie44 at 6:14 pm, Wed 11 Aug

maddie44 - 2021-08-11 18:13:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I am merely trying to point out just WHY some people were able to get ahead faster ‘back in the day’. I was one of the last few people to have my University education paid for. Something that no doubt made it easier for me to buy my first house in my mid 20s. Because I wasn’t saddled with a huge loan like the young ones are these days.

What do you call "back in the day"? How far back? My own son and daughter are now in their 40s and have just recently, along with their spouses, purchased (well, with a mortgage obviously) their second and third homes respectively, and they're not low-end houses either. Their student loans are paid off, but they weren't when they got their first homes. And no they didn't have help from "The Bank of Mum and Dad" either. I'm just wondering if you would include them in the "good old days". One lives overseas, but the one in NZ took advantage of a 10% Deposit Kiwisaver first-home scheme and that got him and his wife off to a darned good start with a 1960s home in a not-to-be-desired neighbourhood, but it was a start and they made good capital gains on it when they sold it to buy their second which is a two-year old home in a nice suburb of Wellington. He still had his student loan then. Neither he nor his wife earn megabucks but have regular income and budget very well.

Edited by kitty179 at 6:51 pm, Wed 11 Aug

kitty179 - 2021-08-11 18:48:00

kitty179 wrote:

What do you call "back in the day"? How far back? My own son and daughter are now in their 40s and have just recently, along with their spouses, purchased (well, with a mortgage obviously) their second and third homes respectively, and they're not low-end houses either. Their student loans are paid off, but they weren't when they got their first homes. And no they didn't have help from "The Bank of Mum and Dad" either. I'm just wondering if you would include them in the "good old days". One lives overseas, but the one in NZ took advantage of a 10% Deposit Kiwisaver first-home scheme and that got him and his wife off to a darned good start with a 1960s home in a not-to-be-desired neighbourhood, but it was a start and they made good capital gains on it when they sold it to buy their second which is a two-year old home in a nice suburb of Wellington. He still had his student loan then. Neither he nor his wife earn megabucks but have regular income and budget very well.

at 40 I would fully expect them to have bought a house. They have 15 years or more on today’s graduates and first home buyers, you could say they lucked in. I am probably only 8-10 years older than your kids myself. I am more concerned about all the young ones who now go out into the market faced with today’s situation, and all those kids still at school or who have only just been born. Do you honestly think those people will have the same chance we had or even your kids had unless they have ‘wealthy’ parents?

Edited by lakeview3 at 7:23 pm, Wed 11 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 19:22:00

maddie44 wrote:

You seem to be ommitting a very important detail, yes there were courses, but those nurses were learning in the hospital, nursing, they were paid for the work they were doing, they didn't have their food and accomodation paid for, it was subsidised and not a hell of a lot.

yeah and it was a damn sight easier to come out experienced, qualified, with a job AND no debt.

Edited by lakeview3 at 7:23 pm, Wed 11 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 19:23:00

lakeview3 wrote:

yeah and it was a damn sight easier to come out experienced, qualified, with a job AND no debt.

So you say.

maddie44 - 2021-08-11 19:26:00

maddie44 wrote:

So you say.

are you a nurse? My friend is 60 and reckoned it was great. She told me about all the costs accommodation etc etc and fully acknowledges how much tougher it is now with the debt some come out with. I will take her word for it thanks. She trained under that scheme so unless you have a better story to tell then I am going with that (plus the fact I have backed up my claims in the earlier link I posted)

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 19:29:00

kitty179 wrote:

Not necessarily. Some would be happy to get the loan to avoid some of the scenarios mentioned by bryalea! Could sound good in retrospect but if you were there you may have a different recollection of events.

The whole thing is different. You had class, a solid block to start with then worked, as in nursed, as in ran all day. It was so exhausting at times I would sleep between shifts and once almost overslept before the next. You didn't have study time but had exams etc. I ended up doing perpetual night shifts a lot of the time in my 2nd year, like 3 weeks on 1 week off, 3 weeks on, ongoingly. That was unusual and not sure why it happened to me. I didn't sleep well during the day so was extremely tired all the time. I was flatting then. I also got to lay out the dead on those night shifts. One would be a 2nd year student on ones own in a full ward, and the supervisor would fill in while I was sent to lay someone out. I don't know why that was me either. I don't know anyone else that it happened to. Maybe because I was that farmer and it didn't worry me but I think the loan and todays training would be a whole better thing. Another thing I remember is a brand new Honda Civic cost 7k. Of course on the wage I got I couldn't afford it but my father loaned me the difference.

bryalea - 2021-08-11 19:54:00

lakeview3 wrote:

are you a nurse? My friend is 60 and reckoned it was great. She told me about all the costs accommodation etc etc and fully acknowledges how much tougher it is now with the debt some come out with. I will take her word for it thanks. She trained under that scheme so unless you have a better story to tell then I am going with that (plus the fact I have backed up my claims in the earlier link I posted)

It was different. And you learnt hands on. I think if you had a better run than I did it could have been better than it was for me. However I am not sure it would be better than now. Students of all sorts have that sort of debt now. I do think it would be better now in that if we failed you couldn't go back later and try again. You were done. Now of course you can. I'm a bit older than 60 so things may have been better then somewhat. In fact someone 60 must have been the last to be doing it as before I left there were nurses coming in trained outside hospitals.

bryalea - 2021-08-11 20:01:00

bryalea wrote:

It was different. And you learnt hands on. I think if you had a better run than I did it could have been better than it was for me. However I am not sure it would be better than now. Students of all sorts have that sort of debt now. I do think it would be better now in that if we failed you couldn't go back later and try again. You were done. Now of course you can. I'm a bit older than 60 so things may have been better then somewhat. In fact someone 60 must have been the last to be doing it as before I left there were nurses coming in trained outside hospitals.

she lived on site too, here in Rotorua in the nurses hostel. so no problems with car parking or even the need to own a car.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 20:13:00

bryalea wrote:

In fact someone 60 must have been the last to be doing it as before I left there were nurses coming in trained outside hospitals.

You noted that too.

maddie44 - 2021-08-11 20:14:00

bryalea wrote:

The whole thing is different. You had class, a solid block to start with then worked, as in nursed, as in ran all day. It was so exhausting at times I would sleep between shifts and once almost overslept before the next. You didn't have study time but had exams etc. I ended up doing perpetual night shifts a lot of the time in my 2nd year, like 3 weeks on 1 week off, 3 weeks on, ongoingly. That was unusual and not sure why it happened to me. I didn't sleep well during the day so was extremely tired all the time. I was flatting then. I also got to lay out the dead on those night shifts. One would be a 2nd year student on ones own in a full ward, and the supervisor would fill in while I was sent to lay someone out. I don't know why that was me either. I don't know anyone else that it happened to. Maybe because I was that farmer and it didn't worry me but I think the loan and todays training would be a whole better thing. Another thing I remember is a brand new Honda Civic cost 7k. Of course on the wage I got I couldn't afford it but my father loaned me the difference.

why on earth would you buy a brand new car back then??? No one I knew ever got a new car (except for one guy at uni whose parents owned a big dairy farm) My first car was a 1960 VW beetle - it was $3000 and considerably older than me. A few years later nz started importing Japanese used cars so that bought the prices down. My parents never even got a new car back then.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 20:18:00

maddie44 wrote:

You noted that too.

back to your usual behaviour I see maddie? Didn’t take long huh?

Big on claims, short on facts.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:19 pm, Wed 11 Aug

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 20:19:00

lakeview3 wrote:

why on earth would you buy a brand new car back then??? No one I knew ever got a new car (except for one guy at uni whose parents owned a big dairy farm) My first car was a 1960 VW beetle - it was $3000 and considerably older than me. A few years later nz started importing Japanese used cars so that bought the prices down. My parents never even got a new car back then.

Well someone has to have that new car, so you can get your old car? Can you suggest an order that bypasses buying new??

heather902 - 2021-08-11 20:24:00

heather902 wrote:

Well someone has to have that new car, so you can get your old car? Can you suggest an order that bypasses buying new??

clearly you missed the point - how many young late teens or newly graduated nurses or newly graduated anyone for that matter ever buy new cars? I only knew the one and that’s because his parents were LOADED.

He was drunk or stoned most of the time so me being the non drinker at the time got to drive it, so that was a bonus.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 20:26:00

But hey, thanks for proving the point. There are 2 New Zealand’s. One with blinkers on and the other with eyes wide open.

lakeview3 - 2021-08-11 20:36:00

lakeview3 wrote:

at 40 I would fully expect them to have bought a house. They have 15 years or more on today’s graduates and first home buyers, you could say they lucked in. I am probably only 8-10 years older than your kids myself. I am more concerned about all the young ones who now go out into the market faced with today’s situation, and all those kids still at school or who have only just been born. Do you honestly think those people will have the same chance we had or even your kids had unless they have ‘wealthy’ parents?

I see your point. I really don't know about their chances because I haven't got "skin in the game", so to speak. My kids are too old and my grandkids too young to hold up as examples because they don't fit the demographic you're referring to. Thanks for clarifying.

kitty179 - 2021-08-11 20:41:00

lakeview3 wrote:

why on earth would you buy a brand new car back then??? No one I knew ever got a new car (except for one guy at uni whose parents owned a big dairy farm) My first car was a 1960 VW beetle - it was $3000 and considerably older than me. A few years later nz started importing Japanese used cars so that bought the prices down. My parents never even got a new car back then.

My first car was a ford Escort that also cost $3000. My parents owned a farm, maybe that was a thing, but I expect the bigger thing was that my family lived 100km away and I needed a good reliable car to get there. This was towards the end of my training so I did have something to put towards it, and apart from living costs I spent very little on anything else, so I was able to save that measly income and buy a car which I had for may years in fact.

Edited by bryalea at 8:53 pm, Wed 11 Aug

bryalea - 2021-08-11 20:49:00

lakeview3 wrote:

back to your usual behaviour I see maddie? Didn’t take long huh?

Big on claims, short on facts.

As nurse training changed in the 70s to a tertiary subject , a sixty year old now must have started very young to have been trained under the in hospital system.

maddie44 - 2021-08-11 20:49:00

kitty179 wrote:

What do you call "back in the day"? How far back? My own son and daughter are now in their 40s and have just recently, along with their spouses, purchased (well, with a mortgage obviously) their second and third homes respectively, and they're not low-end houses either. Their student loans are paid off, but they weren't when they got their first homes. And no they didn't have help from "The Bank of Mum and Dad" either. I'm just wondering if you would include them in the "good old days". One lives overseas, but the one in NZ took advantage of a 10% Deposit Kiwisaver first-home scheme and that got him and his wife off to a darned good start with a 1960s home in a not-to-be-desired neighbourhood, but it was a start and they made good capital gains on it when they sold it to buy their second which is a two-year old home in a nice suburb of Wellington. He still had his student loan then. Neither he nor his wife earn megabucks but have regular income and budget very well.

Yep, they bought back in the day. I am 36 and my wife and I bought our first house in 2008 on low wages, real easy. Houses were way cheaper back then.

Your children would have bought even earlier than us, maybe about 2000 or something, and they were real bargain price back then. In those days you could buy a large house on an enormous section for $190k now which would be worth over a million now.

tygertung - 2021-08-11 20:52:00

lakeview3 wrote:

But hey, thanks for proving the point. There are 2 New Zealand’s. One with blinkers on and the other with eyes wide open.

Whose got the blinkers on? I have a person on my Facebook who bought a new car last year, is a nursing student, has a child, and a partner. Students come in many shapes and sizes....

heather902 - 2021-08-11 20:52:00

lakeview3 wrote:

But hey, thanks for proving the point. There are 2 New Zealand’s. One with blinkers on and the other with eyes wide open.

More like "eyes wide shut"

smallwoods - 2021-08-11 21:25:00

smallwoods wrote:

More like "eyes wide shut"

That was a good movie.

masturbidder - 2021-08-11 21:36:00

maddie44 wrote:

As nurse training changed in the 70s to a tertiary subject , a sixty year old now must have started very young to have been trained under the in hospital system.

My cousin is 60, she trained as a Community Nurse. She left school after sitting School Cert. And she would have been in one of the last intakes at the local hospital.

joanie04 - 2021-08-11 21:49:00

tygertung wrote:

Yep, they bought back in the day. I am 36 and my wife and I bought our first house in 2008 on low wages, real easy. Houses were way cheaper back then.

Your children would have bought even earlier than us, maybe about 2000 or something, and they were real bargain price back then. In those days you could buy a large house on an enormous section for $190k now which would be worth over a million now.

My son and his wife bought their first place in 2014, actually. For $360,000. They were in their early 30s and had been together since 2008.

Edited by kitty179 at 10:21 pm, Wed 11 Aug

kitty179 - 2021-08-11 22:11:00

Another problem, is the champaign socialist left, doing all their research, wanting to lift up the working class, but themselves have multiple holiday homes, or are protesting against high rise apartments affecting their heritage house locations. At least those on the right are greedy by nature and upfront about it.... lol

tohwe - 2021-08-12 00:10:00

tohwe wrote:

Another problem, is the champaign socialist left, doing all their research, wanting to lift up the working class, but themselves have multiple holiday homes, or are protesting against high rise apartments affecting their heritage house locations. At least those on the right are greedy by nature and upfront about it.... lol

The unexpected thing is that honest self interest works better for all. Unlike the lies of "for the good of all" communism.

pcle - 2021-08-12 06:53:00

inatiz wrote:

Allowance paid for? Actually they worked 6 days a week for what you call an allowance, apart from the weeks they were in school, and they also paid for their accommodation in the nurses home.

That must be quite a few years ago. I trained from 1989-1991. I was given an allowance and it was more due to having to drive to placements. I think it was $250 but can’t remember if that was weekly or fortnightly. I also worked at a waitress on Saturday. I was flush with money even after paying board and having a car.

chiz - 2021-08-12 07:25:00

maddie44 wrote:

As nurse training changed in the 70s to a tertiary subject , a sixty year old now must have started very young to have been trained under the in hospital system.

I trained in 1989-1991 and was one of the first few years of being trained in the Polytechnic

chiz - 2021-08-12 07:41:00

kitty179 wrote:

My son and his wife bought their first place in 2014, actually. For $360,000. They were in their early 30s and had been together since 2008.

$360k probably seems like an absolute bargain now. If they bought in '08, it would have probably only been $250k.

tygertung - 2021-08-12 08:15:00

tygertung wrote:

$360k probably seems like an absolute bargain now. If they bought in '08, it would have probably only been $250k.

They sold it last year for $750,000, and bought a two-year-old place for $855,000. Thanks to their success in buying the first home, the equity made it possible for them to do that without incurring much mortgage repayment increase. They have worked hard at moderate-earning jobs, paid off student loans, budgeted carefully, had the advice of a mortgage broker and now are very well set up. I reckon that mid-30s is probably feasible for first-home buyers provided they are in regular employment above minimum wage, have their eye on the goal and stay realistic about the type of house they can afford.

kitty179 - 2021-08-12 10:29:00

kitty179 wrote:

They sold it last year for $750,000, and bought a two-year-old place for $855,000. Thanks to their success in buying the first home, the equity made it possible for them to do that without incurring much mortgage repayment increase. They have worked hard at moderate-earning jobs, paid off student loans, budgeted carefully, had the advice of a mortgage broker and now are very well set up. I reckon that mid-30s is probably feasible for first-home buyers provided they are in regular employment above minimum wage, have their eye on the goal and stay realistic about the type of house they can afford.

Stepson bought in Wellington.about 3 years ago on the back of a good job. Had a GF and got 2 flatmates in. He had no dept prior (student or vehicle loans etc) Mid 2020 he and GF bought another house using her kiwisaver (with a condition the other sold). It sold within about 2 weeks, and flatties moved with him into the new huge 4 bedroom, 2 story $700k home. Really nice home. They have just recently got in 2 more flatties. Stepson and GF are mid 20's. They had no financial help from families. The value of the first house increased about 25% while they had it.

bryalea - 2021-08-12 11:09:00

lakeview3 wrote:

Are you trying to tell me FREE nursing training, accommodation AND an allowance was bad?

Oh dear ROFL……I rest my case.

you had to pay to live in the nurses’ home back then

And student nurses were effectively cannon fodder. We worked shifts, there would be one RN on the ward. The rest of the staff would be students. So we worked bl00dy hard and weren’t paid much

When I finished my training, I was given a card with how many hours I’d worked in various areas. It was in the thousands.

We got 5 or 6 weeks holiday a year.

Compare all this to the current system. Students do an academic year - so from March to November plus with holidays during that time

When they are on the wards they have one or two patients and a tutor with them.

Edited by princess52 at 12:17 am, Fri 13 Aug

princess52 - 2021-08-13 00:07:00

bryalea wrote:

Well I lucked out there. Started in 1974. $12 week accommodation!
And I'm not sure $35 a week (for a $40 hr week!) is all that much given that is no doubt pre tax, less $12 keep. And on top of that all very well feeding us but I don't think it was great. I do remember a major gasto event where some were collapsing in lines outside the toilets in queues and crapping themselves so many were ill in the middle of the night.

. ????

princess52 - 2021-08-13 00:41:00

I started my training in 1979 at Auckland hospital. There were nurses being trained at Tech even back then. They did placements in the same wards as us. There were a few hospital training classes after mine.

Edited by princess52 at 12:52 am, Fri 13 Aug

princess52 - 2021-08-13 00:52:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I am merely trying to point out just WHY some people were able to get ahead faster ‘back in the day’. I was one of the last few people to have my University education paid for. Something that no doubt made it easier for me to buy my first house in my mid 20s. Because I wasn’t saddled with a huge loan like the young ones are these days.

I really do feel sorry for your children, having such a negative input in their lives.

Surely, any parent would encourage their children to make the most of what they have 'now', rather than look at what people before them had/didn't have etc.

My children are 18 & 20, both have great savings and have a considerable amount for their ages. Both joined Kiwisaver as soon as they started working (the youngest at 15) and I have raised them to not spend what they don't have, work, save, go without if necessary to get where you want but that they will never go wrong with buying a house. I have NEVER told them they can't or won't be able to, and they are both working towards it as young people.

They have the benefit of the Kiwisaver first home grant, I didn't. They have the benefit of first year free study, I didn't. They will have access to WFF, Paid Parental Leave etc etc, things I didn't. Do I begrudge their generation because they have more than I did? No.

Maybe STOP blaming other generations, teach your children they CAN own a home, with savings, going without and doing what the generations before us did (you know, with NO technology, going without many things, growing their own food, sewing their own clothes etc etc).

LV, I think you forget 'back in the day' things were MUCH more expensive (clothes, appliances etc). People used to sew their own clothes, hand me downs were common, people grew most of what they ate and people simply went without. Cold, draughty houses were common and people purchased them in areas outside the 'main/popular' areas, made do and did them up over many years, just to get ahead.

Now people expect to purchase a nice house in a good area and moan because they can't afford it. The people you moan about now that own 'nice houses in good areas' (you know, those horrid boomers), didn't buy million dollar houses in nice areas when they were young. They purchased sh!t houses in out of the way areas and did them up, or stayed in the same place for many years.

Edited by rhys12 at 11:57 pm, Fri 13 Aug

rhys12 - 2021-08-13 23:56:00

LV flip flops from declaring angrily and loudly that her children will never be homeowners to backtracking and agreeing they have plenty of opportunity still.

heather902 - 2021-08-14 10:48:00

heather902 wrote:

LV flip flops from declaring angrily and loudly that her children will never be homeowners to backtracking and agreeing they have plenty of opportunity still.

no I don’t, perhaps you misinterpreted something?

lakeview3 - 2021-08-14 12:06:00

rhys12 wrote:

I really do feel sorry for your children, having such a negative input in their lives.

Surely, any parent would encourage their children to make the most of what they have 'now', rather than look at what people before them had/didn't have etc.

My children are 18 & 20, both have great savings and have a considerable amount for their ages. Both joined Kiwisaver as soon as they started working (the youngest at 15) and I have raised them to not spend what they don't have, work, save, go without if necessary to get where you want but that they will never go wrong with buying a house. I have NEVER told them they can't or won't be able to, and they are both working towards it as young people.

They have the benefit of the Kiwisaver first home grant, I didn't. They have the benefit of first year free study, I didn't. They will have access to WFF, Paid Parental Leave etc etc, things I didn't. Do I begrudge their generation because they have more than I did? No.

Maybe STOP blaming other generations, teach your children they CAN own a home, with savings, going without and doing what the generations before us did (you know, with NO technology, going without many things, growing their own food, sewing their own clothes etc etc).

LV, I think you forget 'back in the day' things were MUCH more expensive (clothes, appliances etc). People used to sew their own clothes, hand me downs were common, people grew most of what they ate and people simply went without. Cold, draughty houses were common and people purchased them in areas outside the 'main/popular' areas, made do and did them up over many years, just to get ahead.

Now people expect to purchase a nice house in a good area and moan because they can't afford it. The people you moan about now that own 'nice houses in good areas' (you know, those horrid boomers), didn't buy million dollar houses in nice areas when they were young. They purchased sh!t houses in out of the way areas and did them up, or stayed in the same place for many years.

don’t put words in my mouth. You also appear to have misinterpreted some of my posts.

I know very clearly what the situation is, you can’t pull any wool over my eyes thanks

lakeview3 - 2021-08-14 12:08:00

lakeview3 wrote:

no I don’t, perhaps you misinterpreted something?

you are right, it looks like you have no faith in your kids ability to save. its sad, because if we had to start out over right now i think we could still do it, so much rides on what you think you can do.

heather902 - 2021-08-14 12:50:00

heather902 wrote:

you are right, it looks like you have no faith in your kids ability to save. its sad, because if we had to start out over right now i think we could still do it, so much rides on what you think you can do.

um ok if you say so….lol

lakeview3 - 2021-08-14 12:51:00

lakeview3 wrote:

um ok if you say so….lol

you said it yourself. in this thread.

heather902 - 2021-08-14 12:52:00