We are screwed. And tenants are screwed even more.
| # | Post |
|---|---|
| 151 | My thoughts on the 'greedy owners of extra houses should be forced to rent them out, not keep them empty or use for airbnb' argument kateley - 2021-03-25 00:20:00 |
| 152 | kateley wrote: No, that's obviously not the "plan". If your view is that the current government are anti-landlord, why would they want to create more landlords. Obviously they'll be required to buy a house for a poor family. (sarcasm) sparkychap - 2021-03-25 06:57:00 |
| 153 | "Multiple property owners need to come under more scrutiny." I own 3 properties (two mortgage free and one with a mortgage). Family home is half share with my elderly mum (mortgage free now). Second property is a wee flat (mortgage free) I inherited when my dad died 5 years ago - rented to a nice older guy who is a good tenant. Third property is mortgaged - a house I rent to my son's ex who is raising my 2 year old grandson on a benefit. I put extra money in to keep the rentals in great shape and keep rents low to help my tenants, but these changes will have to make me rethink everything. I don't mind the brightline test, but the removal of interest as a deduction will definitely force more hand in raising rents, and probably selling atleast one property (and leaving someone looking for a home). Owning more than one property doesn't mean you are rolling in it lol. sam447 - 2021-03-25 07:46:00 |
| 154 | These prices are utterly bonkers. apollo11 - 2021-03-25 10:59:00 |
| 155 | kamo631 wrote:
Yes that is what i think too. I wrote the below on the 'Rents will soar' thread. 'I had thought that Govt had left the ability to claim mortgage interest on new developments ie ones that added to the housing stock, even it is by one. Buying an existing house does not add to the overall housing stock for renters and home owners. If this is so then why would a prudent investor not buy for development or buy shares in a company that built houses instead of moaning about not being able to buy a secondhand house and claim the mortgage interest. I am sure Govt is not expecting a change to active development, that results in additional housing stock, to happen overnight but to set the levers so it is seen as a preferred option. I am a LL (2) but with no mortgage interest to claim (for 5 or so years) and I must say the idea of developing new builds for rentals from scratch does appeal." Lots of 'woe is me' but how about looking to see if building new for rental is a possibility or investing on shares in a building company. Some options you pay more tax, but that is OK I would have thought. We all should/need to pay tax. Any accountant worth their salt will be able to help you maximise profit by legally minimising tax. You never know it might lead to better maintenance of rental stock as LL put money in this which is still deductible. shanreagh - 2021-03-25 11:29:00 |
| 156 | From Labour's website... Bought a new build as a rental (late last year, the week after Labour won the last election)... I'm guessing this ain't going to be retrospectively applied? cognition - 2021-03-25 11:30:00 |
| 157 | cognition wrote:
Bought a new build or Built a new build. Is buying a new build exempt? heather902 - 2021-03-25 11:34:00 |
| 158 | lakeview3 wrote:
Actually a wee bit later than after WW2 and not really influenced by WW2. It was the wool clip that came in around the time of the Korean war 1950-1953. That war was fought in very cold temps and the need for wool for uniforms sent the returns on wool sky high. Farming was a a low ebb after WW2 and some were just hanging on until this happened. Some had already sold up. The years after WW2 were also very bad for lack of housing. People living in sheds and washhouses as the need for housing skyrocketed when the 'boys' came back from overseas. They had rehab loans and were looking for houses/land to buy to house their families. shanreagh - 2021-03-25 11:41:00 |
| 159 | heather902 wrote:
Originally bought as a spec build / turn key package from the builder. No matter, will move forward with getting rid of the mortgage entirely on the place in few years once it comes off of it's fixed rate. Edited by cognition at 11:47 am, Thu 25 Mar cognition - 2021-03-25 11:44:00 |
| 160 | heather902 wrote: yes Why do people think owning rental properties is not a business? We have rental properties to provide for our retirement. My husband is 71 and I’m 60. I can’t imagine trying to live in the government super. We have long term tenants. One has lived in one of our places for 15 years. I would imagine she could have bought over the last 15 years but she hasn’t. Our tenants are mostly a mix of young professionals and students. That hasn’t changed in the time we’ve owned rentals. Our tenants tell us we are the best landlords they’ve ever had. My husband says the language should change from landlord to housing provider and from tenant to housing client or customer. We treat the rentals as a business and without our tenants we’d have no business. We won’t be impacted much by the changes but I still see it as more landlord bashing. We have friends who are landlords too. One thanks me every time she sees me. They are 77 and say their retirement would have been pretty sad without the rental properties. Another is 81 she has a home and income property. Her last lot of tenants were at our annual Christmas brunch. They moved out last year into their own place. princess52 - 2021-03-25 11:51:00 |
| 161 | If prices stabilise which is projected, how will first home buyers afford to buy? If investors go “bugger this” and sell up where will tenants find rentals? And earlier in the thread someone talked about villas split into flats for single people. While those places have always been around, I flatted in my 20s in various places. One was a 2 bedroom unit in Blockhouse Bay, one a 3 bedroom bungalow in Ponsonby, one a 3 bedroom in Glenfield and another 3 bedroom in Hillcrest. princess52 - 2021-03-25 11:58:00 |
| 162 | cognition wrote:
And will they decide when it’s a year or two old it’s no longer new so interest on the loan is no longer deductible? rowlf - 2021-03-25 12:03:00 |
| 163 | princess52 wrote: . Mhmm, how long are you planing to live for?....... ????. You know, we retired about “ 10 years” before the offical retirement age, and spend our time traveling .... after all you can’t take the stuff with you....???? one thing I have learned from it is, we probably should have done that a lot sooner ( if one can afford it).... after all that is what money is, it buys you time argentum47 - 2021-03-25 12:05:00 |
| 164 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 12:05:00 |
| 165 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 12:08:00 |
| 166 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 12:11:00 |
| 167 | argentum47 wrote:
I retired for the third time at the end of 2013. My husband is not good at doing nothing lol. As I said, he’s 71. He manages our rentals. He does most of the maintenance with one worker. So he works 4 days a week with the occasional weekend stuff as well He actually said that he is missing our holidays because they are time to catch up on sleep and have no plans for the day! We usually travel at least 5 times a year. Last year we went to Queenstown in February. We are just back from a week in New Plymouth. So, not much holidaying has gone on! Life is short and we need to enjoy it. Edited by princess52 at 12:31 pm, Thu 25 Mar princess52 - 2021-03-25 12:28:00 |
| 168 | princess52 wrote:
Excuse me? But do you have a link to where it says *buying* new builds will be exempt. I can only find where it says investing in new builds which could mean anything really. heather902 - 2021-03-25 12:54:00 |
| 169 | heather902 wrote:
From the Labour Party website - the paragraph about new builds - https://www.labour.org.nz/news-housing-2021-next-steps It says “invest in new builds” - to me that would mean turn key would be included. wachael1 - 2021-03-25 13:17:00 |
| 170 | heather902 wrote:
Wouldn't an investor be building the new build.....ie buying the land, arranging for the build and then renting it? Even if an investor had existing property and could fit another unit on it then the interest on a mortgage to meet the costs associated subdivision/build would be able to be claimed. Think you would have to be careful buying from a developer as they get some tax relief and you can only have one entity claiming a tax benefit e being able to claim back the interest on one new rental or house for sale, I would have thought.. Adding new stock is what the Govt is hoping will happen not the current merry go round with existing stock that has had the effect of cutting out many FHB and I think probably some under cashed ones moving cities or trading up for various reasons. shanreagh - 2021-03-25 13:30:00 |
| 171 | wachael1 wrote:
I just read that they were considering an exemption. It would kind of be unfair ir the person with a one year old house had a huge tax advantage over the person with say a 3 year old house. I mean just why? Edited by heather902 at 1:36 pm, Thu 25 Mar heather902 - 2021-03-25 13:32:00 |
| 172 | It might lead to better maintenance of rental stock as LL put money in this which is still deductible.[/quote] above poster, fast_or_last - 2021-03-25 14:25:00 |
| 173 | I'm (entirely) guessing, but I don't think the exemption will include buying new builds. When you buy a new build you are potentially competing with first-home buyers who also want to buy that new build. So to me "invest in new builds" would mean doing the actual development, ie buy the land, pay someone to build a house on it. luteba - 2021-03-25 15:00:00 |
| 174 | Would make sense to give intensives to new builds, well it’s one way to increase the housing stock, and not everyone builds new houses to rent out... well they do it in Aussie, buy an existing home and you pay stamp duty on it, buy an investment property and you pay a much higher stamp duty ( you also pay higher council rates, but if you build, you just pay the stamp duty on the land, and not on the building costs, so you may as well buy yourself a pool with that money and at the same time get a brand new home too..... argentum47 - 2021-03-25 15:28:00 |
| 175 | heather902 wrote:
Sorry Heather! The only bit of my post that related to yours was “yes” princess52 - 2021-03-25 15:36:00 |
| 176 | luteba wrote:
Yes that is my thought...that you do the running and get the extra house/s up and built....not someone who cam along later and bought a nearly new home. Where is adding to the existing housing stock in that? shanreagh - 2021-03-25 15:50:00 |
| 177 | sam447 wrote:
Could always start up a normal business right. rayonline_tm - 2021-03-25 15:58:00 |
| 178 | princess52 wrote:
Many businesses cannot just year after year operate very marginally or at a loss right? Hold off and then take the capital? A business when they stop and sell up the capital is taxed right? Customers have the choice whether to rent somewhere or not buy a coffee somewhere. rayonline_tm - 2021-03-25 16:00:00 |
| 179 | princess52 wrote:
You're operating a business. If one operates a cafe and they stop operating, it's the customer's issue and the govt which takes a social responsibility like how they cater for hospitals and schools because not everyone has or can afford private health insurance. rayonline_tm - 2021-03-25 16:04:00 |
| 180 | luteba wrote:
Agree yea. Those who get those attributes are those who actually increase the housing supply. Not just buying a house that someone else has built up. IMO. rayonline_tm - 2021-03-25 16:06:00 |
| 181 | kittycatkin wrote:
Many people are of the view that owning a residential property that you rent out is indeed a business, BUT should fall into a special category of business which means it should not be run as one would run a "normal" business... and with special rules as to tax deductibility of a legimate business expense, interest on a loan, and special tax treatment on resale, the government is of the same view.. The housing scene in NZ is firmly based on several expectations, which I see need to change if we are going to get anywhere in "solving" the current problems. Like it or not the "business" of buying residential properties and renting them out is always going to generally lie with small / mum & dad / enthusiast amateur operators who happen to have a few bob spare... no big business / commercial or corporate player is going to want to play in the "nickel and dime" sandpit of residential rentals... it is just the nature of the business ! If the current plan is to "discourage" investors getting into the rental market, perhaps some "discouragement treatment" should be aimed at sellers.. if you sell to an investor then your gains are taxed... Sell to a first home buyer and you get your legal fees and perhaps real estate commission refunded !! onl_148 - 2021-03-25 16:21:00 |
| 182 | WEll, according to Jacinda, you can still invest and recoup interest if you buy a new build. that is what she said. Of course it is entirely possible she doesn't understand the new changes herself. heather902 - 2021-03-25 16:26:00 |
| 183 | kamo631 wrote:
I was living in a 5 bedroom house and then a three bedroomed house, and also in another 4 bedroomed house which were all rentals in my teens 40 years ago.. How far back are you thinking? Edited by hazelnut2 at 4:27 pm, Thu 25 Mar hazelnut2 - 2021-03-25 16:27:00 |
| 184 | luteba wrote: Yes it will, just that a new build is only caught by a 5 year brightline period not the 10 year. sparkychap - 2021-03-25 16:53:00 |
| 185 | "The Government will consult on the detail of these proposals and legislation will be introduced shortly thereafter. sparkychap - 2021-03-25 16:58:00 |
| 186 | rayonline_tm wrote:
Yes that’s true. However there are hundreds of thousands of people currently on the social house waiting list. I’d guess that recent tenancy law changes will increase the waiting list even more. So landlords and PMs will only take rock solid tenants because 90 days notice is history and it’s going to be very difficult to get rid of bad tenants. Then add in investors selling because the lack of deductibility has caused them to reevaluate. What do you reckon that will mean? princess52 - 2021-03-25 17:34:00 |
| 187 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 18:47:00 |
| 188 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 18:50:00 |
| 189 | This message was deleted. kittycatkin - 2021-03-25 18:51:00 |
| 190 | kittycatkin wrote:
These changes don't affect me personally, but I can appreciate this is going to have quite a big impact on some people. She just fobbed it all off as inconsequential. Edited by heather902 at 7:18 pm, Thu 25 Mar heather902 - 2021-03-25 19:18:00 |
| 191 | princess52 wrote:
No pain no gain. The housing situation is so bad something painful has to happen before it can move forward. House prices cannot go up and up and up .... Before we know it AKL at least might be as high as Hong Kong not per meter square but household incomes vs typical person's home. In a way the decades built up Asian apartments has been their culture and what they are used to and for NZ it is the 3 or 4 bedroom, a garage front lawn with a backyard. Maybe for NZ the future is about smaller units and that may be different to NZ's past for the many NZders so it might be a undesirable culture change for NZ. For a lot of NZders and moving forward what we had in the past is probably gone, less and less would own their own homes now even when we are building smaller units now. It would continue to fall until it flattens out. While a group of investors might be quite wealthy, when they pass away and die a lot of that doesn't get passed down the generations esp when you go to 3 or 4 generations down the tree. Edited by rayonline_tm at 7:37 pm, Thu 25 Mar rayonline_tm - 2021-03-25 19:33:00 |
| 192 | kateley wrote: Did you ever watch the TV series - 'Years and Years' starring Emma Thompson? Do I detect an echo. brouser3 - 2021-03-25 19:49:00 |
| 193 | rayonline_tm wrote: Not so long 'once upon a time' ago - getting onto the 'property ladder' was both seen as and accepted as the safest way to ensure one's future financial security, The concept of 'negative gearing' was actually encouraged not so many years ago, so that there were sufficient buyers of new builds to satisfy the lust of residential developers. In fact many of these new residences were being sold with a 'tenant' ready to sign up on a 5 or 10 year lease with often a further right of renewal, along with a refurbishment clause when the lease concludes. The price of the residence was comparatively high in relation to the wage of the day, and interest rates were also at an all time high. brouser3 - 2021-03-25 20:02:00 |
| 194 | This message was deleted. puddleduck00 - 2021-03-25 20:28:00 |
| 195 | Investors will be snapping up cheap new builds. pcle - 2021-03-25 20:32:00 |
| 196 | puddleduck00 wrote:
why not? when you invest in kiwisaver, you do nothing 100% of the time. It's just a type of passive investment. toenail - 2021-03-25 22:25:00 |
| 197 | puddleduck00 wrote: in the first years we worked. We also did all the work on properties we purchased. Things like painting and in a couple of cases, getting rid of dirt floors in houses. So we put in a lot of sweat work to make places better for tenants. We also saved/didn’t spend on much, so we could afford to pay the difference between rent and our outgoings. We’ve always managed our own places so it’s hardly “sit back and do nothing”. As I said earlier, my husband is 71. He works 5 days a week managing our rentals. I mostly do admin work for our business. As I also said, this new legislation will not have much of an impact on us princess52 - 2021-03-25 23:55:00 |
| 198 | on top of building more homes we now need a 600 billion dollar upgrade of our electricity supply because the government are banning LPG and ICE car for EV The worlds gone mad, we now by normalization of deviance are calling New Zealand a maori name - what the hell is going on. hydroplane - 2021-03-26 00:05:00 |
| 199 | NZ should have a Maori name. Anyway back on topic, my concern is that I won't be able to keep the rent as low as possible for my tenant as otherwise there won't be enough money for groceries for my family! tygertung - 2021-03-26 00:30:00 |
| 200 | The member deleted this message. puddleduck00 - 2021-03-26 00:55:00 |
