| 101 | lakeview3 wrote:
yes and there are health challenges along the way, none of us have a crystal ball. I guess the govt just keeps printing money and we all end up earning $25 an hour and living in houses worth $3 million......and keep importing people who will live like paupers to service our aging population because New Zealanders will no longer be able afford to have kids....happy days. being able to afford to have kids doesn't seem to stop many people. and those kids don't go on to work in aged care because its deemed not suitable work for kiwis... far better to collect a dole payment, far more dignified. heather902 - 2021-03-20 18:04:00 |
| 102 | lakeview3 wrote:
And round and round we go. Asking people who don’t need the pension to live off to step back and say “you know what? I am financially well off, and I would rather this money be used to give a child a good education and a safe roof over their head” isn’t hating on old people. It’s asking them to morally do the right thing. THAT seems to be the issue. Curious whether there are any stats on any numbers who may have not claimed super as it was not needed. Couldn't find anything. mkr_ahearn - 2021-03-20 18:32:00 |
| 103 | domy2010 wrote:
We have market house prices (crazy) and rental market prices (crazy). What I mean is that just maybe things like food and housing should be a market driven thing? Its basic survival, and people have a basic human right to eat and live in a warm home. Market driven very rarely provides this for everyone We also have significant taxpayer transfers. Working for families, accommodation supplement, TAS, child care subsidies and often others as well. A warm home is not a basic human right BTW. artemis - 2021-03-20 18:35:00 |
| 104 | lakeview3 wrote:
I already know all that......and yes interest rates are low, but prices are sky high, compared with income. New Zealand has the highest debt to income ratio in the OECD. Not something to be proud of. Oh really, what source do you use? This is what the OECD itself thinks...
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm tony9 - 2021-03-20 18:36:00 |
| 105 | smallwoods wrote:
Australia also has cheaper housing, living costs, 501 deportations, mineral deposits....
So why don't we? We do have mineral deposits of course. Extensive and valuable. Including under the sea. Not allowed to access most of them though. artemis - 2021-03-20 18:38:00 |
| 106 | tony9 wrote:
Oh really, what source do you use? This is what the OECD itself thinks...
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 107 | artemis wrote:
We do have mineral deposits of course. Extensive and valuable. Including under the sea. Not allowed to access most of them though. It was for LV to answer, but thanks anyway. smallwoods - 2021-03-20 18:55:00 |
| 108 | tony9 wrote:
Oh really, what source do you use? This is what the OECD itself thinks...
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm 2018 Edited by lakeview3 at 7:00 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 18:58:00 |
| 109 | smallwoods wrote:
It was for LV to answer, but thanks anyway. I missed that one sorry, economies of scale? I would say the minerals would be a big reason for the difference. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:11:00 |
| 110 | lakeview3 wrote:
the New Zealand pension has been used and exploited by overseas people from countries with no pension, and New Zealanders who have worked a lifetime overseas, seeking an easy life in country they have not contributed to. It is by far the largest cost to the New Zealand taxpayer in terms of welfare payments and is many times greater than all the other benefits put together. Many times it is paid to people who, in all reasonable terms have income and assets that would see them not require the pension to live off. The fact these people have absolutely no qualms about taking the money and spending it on frivolous indulgent items while they drive past people literally with no where to sleep sickens me to the core. If it doesn’t sicken them then that says a lot about them really. Sooner or later we WILL have to have that conversation. It’s not a matter of if but when. Australia tests their pension so why don’t we? I worked extremely hard for 50 years and have no guilt accepting the pension. I was never on the dole and always fully employed...Working 40plus hours a week was the norm for me. I am happy to give my pension away to people in need. I prefer to choose the families I give to so I know it isn’t wasted buying drugs, alcohol etc.
I think you generalise far too much, far too often and have a closed mind but the worst thing though is that you are always mean and nasty towards pensioners.
Your criticism regarding old people speaks volumes and sickens me to the core.
“Frivolous” ‘indulgent’ how dare you. ???? |
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| 115 | lovelurking wrote:
I worked extremely hard for 50 years and have no guilt accepting the pension. I was never on the dole and always fully employed...Working 40plus hours a week was the norm for me. I am happy to give my pension away to people in need. I prefer to choose the families I give to so I know it isn’t wasted buying drugs, alcohol etc.
I think you generalise far too much, far too often and have a closed mind but the worst thing though is that you are always mean and nasty towards pensioners.
Your criticism regarding old people speaks volumes and sickens me to the core.
“Frivolous” ‘indulgent’ how dare you. ???? wow don’t take it too personally. Likely you arent in the range of people I was meaning. I could say how dare people be so greedy and indebt their own children and grandchildren to a degree that most would never comprehend. Some people don’t have kids and don’t care about the world the younger generations will live in after we are gone, my husband has a friend like that. I am not taking anything away from you. Good on you for working hard and reaching retirement. I wasn’t meaning ‘you’ specifically. I can certainly see why this country is headed down the gurgler though. Maybe you should travel up here a bit more, stay a bit longer, get a real feel for it, talk to people, it’s a whole different world. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:33:00 |
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| 117 | kittycatkin wrote:
The things that people on the 'DPB' can claim are astonishing; obvious vote buying at the expense of the taxpayer. People start to act all peculiar when I point out its quite possible and usual to collect $80K gross + in Auckland on benefits with 3 kids plus work the minimum hours allowed (to keep without abatement). And we blame pensioners for the state of the country? well I don't blame either. but it is a big bill all round. heather902 - 2021-03-20 19:41:00 |
| 118 | heather902 wrote:
People start to act all peculiar when I point out its quite possible and usual to collect $80K gross + in Auckland on benefits with 3 kids plus work the minimum hours allowed (to keep without abatement). And we blame pensioners for the state of the country? well I don't blame either. but it is a big bill all round. no one is blaming pensioners for the state of the country.....jeeze talk about misinterpretation. Also I am no fan of giving people something for nothing either. Somewhere somehow we need to have a conversation about where the balance lies. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:48:00 |
| 119 | kittycatkin wrote:
People need to live here for some time before they get Super. Other countries have reciprocal agreements which mean that the pension someone would be getting in the country they worked in is paid here. No cost to NZ. Your spiteful generalisation about these frivolous, indulgent people driving past homeless people is based upon nothing. If you know that people have nowhere to sleep, why don't you take them home to your big house that has 3 people in 200+ sm ? There's plenty of room, you could easily fit quite a few in. If you're not prepared to, don't slag off other people for driving past when you are doing so yourself. People with high incomes have paid a lot of tax, so your comments are inaccurate as well as derogatory. lol you are funny! lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:49:00 |
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| 121 | kittycatkin wrote:
That figure doesn't surprise me. I knew a girl who had ? children, lived in a lovely lakeside house and had new cars, a boat and little motorbikes for the children, went on skiiing holidays and had a partner. Her income was the 'DPB' as it used to be called. I didn't and don't know how she got away with it. I forget how many children she had; she liked having them and thought it was her right to do so. A budget advisor in Hamilton was advising women to have a new baby every 18 months or so to keep their incomes going; she lost her job and she deserved it. why didn’t you dob her in then? You can’t be on the DPB and have a partner. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:50:00 |
| 122 | lakeview3 wrote:
lol you are funny! That's a real cop out response. She's making some very valid points, you know. sparkychap - 2021-03-20 19:50:00 |
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| 124 | sparkychap wrote:
That's a real cop out response. She's making some very valid points, you know. yes it was, its what LV does time and time again. heather902 - 2021-03-20 19:51:00 |
| 125 | sparkychap wrote:
That's a real cop out response. She's making some very valid points, you know. occasionally she does. But not that time. I can’t be bothered with most of her posts. But let’s just indulge her (and you, and heather now too it seems). People only need to be here 10 years currently to get the pension and you don’t have to have worked.
People with reciprocal schemes may well be getting their payment from another country, but they are still taking up a house and space on the roads and space in the health system which they may or may not have contributed towards. Blah blah blah Edited by lakeview3 at 7:59 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 19:52:00 |
| 126 | lakeview3 wrote:
no one is blaming pensioners for the state of the country.....jeeze talk about misinterpretation. Also I am no fan of giving people something for nothing either. Somewhere somehow we need to have a conversation about where the balance lies. oh come on, you make nasty generalised statements time and time again. berating the older generations for stealing from the younger. The truth is the younger able bodied generations with children collect a heap more money on an individual level. heather902 - 2021-03-20 19:54:00 |
| 127 | lakeview3 wrote:
occasionally she does. But not that time. N, she did. Seriously. It was a very good post. sparkychap - 2021-03-20 19:57:00 |
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| 132 | lakeview3 wrote:
2018 Sorry, a bit thick tonight, how is 2018 a reference? tony9 - 2021-03-20 20:03:00 |
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| 134 | heather902 wrote:
oh come on, you make nasty generalised statements time and time again. berating the older generations for stealing from the younger. The truth is the younger able bodied generations with children collect a heap more money on an individual level. the truth is they don’t. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-super-costs-up-as-nz-retire
es-on-100k-passes-30000/SNSRX3N637F4W3LSCSQ236QJJQ/ All the other benefits put together are dwarfed by the cost of New Zealand superannuation. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/a-close-look-at-the-sup
erannuation-problem And I never said anyone was stealing anything. Good grief. Edited by lakeview3 at 8:19 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:06:00 |
| 135 | tony9 wrote:
Sorry, a bit thick tonight, how is 2018 a reference? I can’t find an updated source so I will concede to you on that point. Certainly the stats are nothing to be proud of. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:07:00 |
| 136 | kittycatkin wrote:
You criticise people for driving past the homeless; how often do you stop and take homeless people back to your own house ? . lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:08:00 |
| 137 | kittycatkin wrote:
Not just the older generation; immigrants come in for a big share of her bile. I have a problem with non contributing unskilled immigrants coming here. How many pieces can we divide the same pie into? It’s nothing against those people I am sure they are lovely, but them being here doesn’t help Joe average kiwi. And foreigners owning our land, I do have an issue with that also,. I won’t apologise for my beliefs. Jobs and opportunities for kiwis first every time. Edited by lakeview3 at 8:16 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:10:00 |
| 138 | lakeview3 wrote:
the truth is they don’t. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-super-costs-up-as-nz-retire
es-on-100k-passes-30000/SNSRX3N637F4W3LSCSQ236QJJQ/ All the other benefits put together are dwarfed by the cost of New Zealand superannuation. And I never said anyone was stealing anything. Good grief. you've misunderstood what i said. I said on an individual basis. A young and healthy person on the DPB is payed a lot more (because of the children) than an older person who probably cannot work.
Its not fair to blame either person or group of individuals for the situation they are in. But you certainly cannot reverse age, and often failing health. My point was its probably Stupid to refuse income as you head toward an age you cannot earn it. But you can always donate excess $$'s. heather902 - 2021-03-20 20:20:00 |
| 139 | lakeview3 wrote:
I can’t find an updated source so I will concede to you on that point. Certainly the stats are nothing to be proud of. Oh dear, another claim with no stats to back it up. sparkychap - 2021-03-20 20:22:00 |
| 140 | kittycatkin wrote:
Good grief, when was that ? Not in my lifetime. Not in anyone's lifetime; showers were around in the 19th century. Pink Batts have been around for many, many years.They were invented in the 30s and widely used by the 50s. Electric heaters have been around for well over 100 years. I have never seen a new house at any time that fits your description. Zip heater over the bath ? Mouldy tongue and groove walls ? No windows for ventilation? Why would anyone go on a waiting list to make a phonecall from their own phone ? I don't think Marte was talking of new houses just the old dungers that many of us had to rent while saving for our own homes, own cars even. These were not insulated etc. If you wanted a landline when you moved house you had to put your name on a waiting list in many towns/cities. No showers in our rental, a bath only. You could use the plastic stick on the wall shower with with no curtains or shower rail fitting but we did not as that would mean water all over the floor. In fact in the first place (an old now trendy Victorian cottage) we rented the loo was in the part of the wash house about 4m from the back door. But we kept it clean and tidy and warmed it as best we could as did the 3 other renters in the neighbouring houses that belonged to the landlord. Mind you we all aired them and had good curtains and took pride in our 'place'. We had a califont over the bath and a ztp water heater over the kitchen sink. shanreagh - 2021-03-20 20:23:00 |
| 141 | lakeview3 wrote:
I have a problem with non contributing unskilled immigrants coming here. How many pieces can we divide the same pie into? It’s nothing against those people I am sure they are lovely, but them being here doesn’t help Joe average kiwi. And foreigners owning our land, I do have an issue with that also,. I won’t apologise for my beliefs. Jobs and opportunities for kiwis first every time. They only get to come here, when there is a skills shortage. No one is stopping kiwis applying for the jobs and in many instances they would have a much bigger advantage simply for being able to speak English.
I dunno, I think you stick to your narrative without knowing a few truths. My Son who is very disabled has to navigate ESOL carers on a daily basis as there are not the volume of suitable English as first language applicants to work with the disabled.
Its not a huge problem, but is sometimes not ideal. No one stops Kiwis from working. and I don't buy the hourly rate is not enough, its actually fine. I can earn $25 an hour as his carer, if i wanted to just pay myself and not outsource his care. heather902 - 2021-03-20 20:25:00 |
| 142 | sparkychap wrote:
Oh dear, another claim with no stats to back it up. do you understand the meaning of ‘concede’? I will get back to discuss it once the figures have been updated. The claim was made by a person who may have the figures, I can’t seem to find them anywhere at this point. Happy to debate once we have figures that aren’t 3 years old. lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:33:00 |
| 143 | heather902 wrote:
you've misunderstood what i said. I said on an individual basis. A young and healthy person on the DPB is payed a lot more (because of the children) than an older person who probably cannot work.
Its not fair to blame either person or group of individuals for the situation they are in. But you certainly cannot reverse age, and often failing health. My point was its probably Stupid to refuse income as you head toward an age you cannot earn it. But you can always donate excess $$'s. please also refer to this https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/a-close-look-at-the-sup
erannuation-problem I couldn’t find it in enough time as our internet went on a brief go slow. When you talk about earning income. There are many people who get a passive income with little effort from themselves. These are the people I am referring to. (aand we can probably throw in a few past and present politicians in there also, as if their life benefits package isn’t enough) Anyway I am off to do some other things. Thanks for the lively debate. Edited by lakeview3 at 8:43 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:35:00 |
| 144 | lakeview3 wrote:
do you understand the meaning of ‘concede’? I will get back to discuss it once the figures have been updated. The claim was made by a person who may have the figures, I can’t seem to find them anywhere at this point. Happy to debate once we have figures that aren’t 3 years old. Actually they are "2019 or late where available". But you made a claim: "New Zealand has the highest debt to income ratio in the OECD. Not something to be proud of." You also said: "I don’t really care, but if they are going to make some claim, they should back it up with facts." And yet you continue to make claims with no facts to back them up.... sparkychap - 2021-03-20 20:42:00 |
| 145 | sparkychap wrote:
Actually they are "2019 or late where available". But you made a claim: "New Zealand has the highest debt to income ratio in the OECD. Not something to be proud of." You also said: "I don’t really care, but if they are going to make some claim, they should back it up with facts." And yet you continue to make claims with no facts to back them up.... I should have said one of the highest.....and yes I will follow that up at a later date. As for the other statement, it was about people on here with their oh 18% or the oh 22% interest claims. That’s all you get from them. Never mind their house cost $20,000 and they earned $10,000. It’s all relative. Edited by lakeview3 at 8:48 pm, Sat 20 Mar lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 20:47:00 |
| 146 | kittycatkin wrote:
Good grief, when was that ? Not in my lifetime. Not in anyone's lifetime; showers were around in the 19th century. Pink Batts have been around for many, many years.They were invented in the 30s and widely used by the 50s.
OK, pink batts were only made mandatory in the building code around 1980(?), and that was only for ceiling. It also depends on where you live. Thirty years ago many houses in Invergiggle were still cooking on coal ranges. Houses just out of town were still on party lines, you had to listen for your 'morse code' of long and short rings to know if it was a call for you. apollo11 - 2021-03-20 20:48:00 |
| 147 | lakeview3 wrote:
I should have said one of the highest.....and yes I will follow that up at a later date. As for the other statement, it was about people on here with their oh 18% or the oh 22% interest claims. That’s all you get from them. Never mind their house cost $20,000 and they earned $10,000. It’s all relative. A claim is a claim, a fact is a fact. If you post shit and can't back it up, we can only assume anything you post is bullshit. sparkychap - 2021-03-20 20:49:00 |
| 148 | lakeview3 wrote:
please also refer to this https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/a-close-look-at-the-sup
erannuation-problem I couldn’t find it in enough time as our internet went on a brief go slow. When you talk about earning income. There are many people who get a passive income with little effort from themselves. These are the people I am referring to. (aand we can probably throw in a few past and present politicians in there also, as if their life benefits package isn’t enough) Anyway I am off to do some other things. Thanks for the lively debate. That's what you say when you've had a rant and know a few truths have been returned. Just remember at the time Superannuation was formulated. there was absolutely no idea how many formerly ok families would require support with the advent of support for single parents. Life evolves and changes. but its not as simple as throwing all the older people under the bus and labeled as greedy grasping and undeserving. and you are probably going to understand that one day unless you have i would think at least 5 million tucked away. heather902 - 2021-03-20 20:50:00 |
| 149 | The member deleted this message. domy2010 - 2021-03-20 21:55:00 |
| 150 | heather902 wrote:
That's what you say when you've had a rant and know a few truths have been returned. Just remember at the time Superannuation was formulated. there was absolutely no idea how many formerly ok families would require support with the advent of support for single parents. Life evolves and changes. but its not as simple as throwing all the older people under the bus and labeled as greedy grasping and undeserving. and you are probably going to understand that one day unless you have i would think at least 5 million tucked away. no one is throwing all older people under the bus. Stop making such ridiculous claims. Also FYI “In 1898 the New Zealand government introduced a means-tested old-age pension for those 65 years and older.[12] This established some key features of public pensions in New Zealand, such as the use of general government spending rather than individual contributions, and a "pay as you go" rather than an actuarial approach to funding” lakeview3 - 2021-03-20 22:45:00 |
