mals69 wrote:

Lollol Classic! And spot on!

Mum lives in an over 60's and is mortgage free from going
without. Her neighbour had loads of overseas holidays
in her younger days and has a mortgage still at 70 something,
but her mortgage is topped up by WINZ. Real fair system in
NZ - Not!!!!!!!!

yeah it’s disgusting isn’t it. I mean what it comes down to at the end of the day is how much money do you want to leave your kids because if you don’t give a FF about that, you spend up big and have a ball knowing full well that you will be ‘looked after’ by the people out there trying to do the right thing for themselves and their families.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-12 08:03:00

nonumbers wrote:

If I sold my house, paid my mortgage off, lawyers etc I would have about $175K so where could I go? No bridges nearby to live under . . .
Any brilliant, or even not so brilliant, ideas welcome.
TIA

Well I sold mine and moved in with aged mother, to her house.
I don't get her house though, it goes to my brother who has disabilities, but I guess I'm now the care giver.

lythande1 - 2020-09-12 08:14:00

lythande1 wrote:

Well I sold mine and moved in with aged mother, to her house.
I don't get her house though, it goes to my brother who has disabilities, but I guess I'm now the care giver.

you can contest any will for an even distribution of assets if you want. Under the family protection act, your parents are obligated to provide for you in their will.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:29 am, Sat 12 Sep

lakeview3 - 2020-09-12 08:29:00

The member deleted this message.

mals69 - 2020-09-12 08:32:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-12 08:34:00

mals69 wrote:

Interesting - cheers

let me find an interesting article for you....I will post it here.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-12 08:36:00

mals69 wrote:

Yeah disgusting alright!

I laughed at your post about the teenagers with cody cans and you
thought WTF am I doing lollloll no doubt the sentiment of many
hard working New Zealanders. The so called do-gooder red coats
will only give them more.

Remember a guy on the radio saying benefits keep people on
the second rung of the ladder- second rung of the ladder from
the bottom that it is, comfortable enough never to move from
that second bottom rung of the ladder.

yeah I don’t even know if the people in the car were teenagers sadly, they may have been older. I tell you if you want a bit of free entertainment, go park near a liquor shop on a Thursday. Oh the things you will see. I guess if cannabis gets legalised we can do the same with cannabis- watch all the desperados who need to get off their faces traipsing in and out spending the money the ‘GUMMINT’ (aka the workers) gives them to sit around all day getting stoned. Only this time, they can do it with impunity. We are on a hiding to nothing the way this country is going. I hope the greens get kicked to the kerbside. That school debacle tells us who they really are. I see the principal has now quit.

Edited by lakeview3 at 8:46 am, Sat 12 Sep

lakeview3 - 2020-09-12 08:41:00

Here ya go Mals

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-social-issues/if
-a-supreme-court-judge-cant-draft-a-will-that-delivers-his-w
ishes-who-can

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/92972957/where-theres
-a-will-theres-a-way-to-challenge-it

lakeview3 - 2020-09-12 08:45:00

The spotlight is clearly going to have to come on superannuation and retirement funding in years to come. The inequities raised in this thread alone indicate that it's just not a level playing field anymore.

In answer to OP's query, I think you're probably better off than many other older folk! I have friends who've worked hard all their lives (late 50's) and while I guess you could argue they should have been putting money aside for retirement, they just never had the means to do so to any great degree, and relied on super when they hit retirement. They've just never been money-savvy at all, but have worked bloody hard at low paid jobs without a single day on a benefit. Same friends are renting, and will be for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine renting homes when you're in your 80's - frail and potentially unwell.

Contrast other friends - couple in their 60's, now retired, both worked past retirement at very well-paid jobs (so high income PLUS super) invested money quite well from their 40's onwards, have Kiwisaver and rental properties (I think 2). They're sorted and comfortable and will be able to leave an inheritance to their kids.

Not sure what I'm trying to say but I think, aside from reasonable personal responsibility toward retirement, the super scheme probably needs a look at. If I am still working at 65 at my job, I can honestly say I don't think it's fair that I should receive super on top. But in terms of my first example...I don't begrudge my poorer friends both incomes - it's the only means of them being able to save a few bucks for when they really can't work anymore. And they will both *have* to work until they can't physically do so anymore.

cameron-albany - 2020-09-13 14:34:00

cameron-albany wrote:

The spotlight is clearly going to have to come on superannuation and retirement funding in years to come. The inequities raised in this thread alone indicate that it's just not a level playing field anymore.

In answer to OP's query, I think you're probably better off than many other older folk! I have friends who've worked hard all their lives (late 50's) and while I guess you could argue they should have been putting money aside for retirement, they just never had the means to do so to any great degree, and relied on super when they hit retirement. They've just never been money-savvy at all, but have worked bloody hard at low paid jobs without a single day on a benefit. Same friends are renting, and will be for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine renting homes when you're in your 80's - frail and potentially unwell.

Contrast other friends - couple in their 60's, now retired, both worked past retirement at very well-paid jobs (so high income PLUS super) invested money quite well from their 40's onwards, have Kiwisaver and rental properties (I think 2). They're sorted and comfortable and will be able to leave an inheritance to their kids.

Not sure what I'm trying to say but I think, aside from reasonable personal responsibility toward retirement, the super scheme probably needs a look at. If I am still working at 65 at my job, I can honestly say I don't think it's fair that I should receive super on top. But in terms of my first example...I don't begrudge my poorer friends both incomes - it's the only means of them being able to save a few bucks for when they really can't work anymore. And they will both *have* to work until they can't physically do so anymore.

My husband and I both work in not very well paid jobs, mine is minimum wage and my husband's isn't that much better. We made sacrifices so we could own a house, and it will be paid off before we retire. Bit we also live in a small house and even though we would like a bigger house, with increased mortgage repayments, costs to run the house like power and maintenance. We have realised it's better to stay where we are.
My bosses are both getting super and still working, I don't begrudge them that because they don't earn overly much and both work really hard. Though I'll admit I'm looking forward to when they retire so I can get a new job without feeling I'm leaving them in the poo.

annie17111 - 2020-09-13 17:38:00

lakeview3 wrote:

you can contest any will for an even distribution of assets if you want. .

Yep. And then the lawyers win.

lythande1 - 2020-09-13 17:51:00

lythande1 wrote:

Yep. And then the lawyers win.

so what’s the lesson there?

Make a will fair, make it even, and tell everyone before hand what you are doing so there are no nasty surprises for anyone.

Then you can avoid the courts.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-13 18:03:00

annie17111 wrote:

My husband and I both work in not very well paid jobs, mine is minimum wage and my husband's isn't that much better. We made sacrifices so we could own a house, and it will be paid off before we retire. Bit we also live in a small house and even though we would like a bigger house, with increased mortgage repayments, costs to run the house like power and maintenance. We have realised it's better to stay where we are.
My bosses are both getting super and still working, I don't begrudge them that because they don't earn overly much and both work really hard. Though I'll admit I'm looking forward to when they retire so I can get a new job without feeling I'm leaving them in the poo.

once the kids leave home you will be glad for the small house, less to clean. Also well done you.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-13 18:04:00

lakeview3 wrote:

once the kids leave home you will be glad for the small house, less to clean. Also well done you.

my sister in law spends 4 hours cleaning on the weekend and they have just moved to a bigger house yesterday. I would hate to spend that long cleaning. Takes us about an hour if that with everyone helping.

annie17111 - 2020-09-13 18:27:00

Don't forget marriage break ups in middle age can mean both parties enter retirement with a mortgage due to having to start again. That's fairly common and perhaps more so nowadays although I don't have the stats on that and nor can I be bothered looking.

mazalinas - 2020-09-13 19:02:00

lakeview3 wrote:

once the kids leave home you will be glad for the small house, less to clean. Also well done you.

Exactly what I thought when I read the post. I am happier in my much smaller place, don't miss the big house at all, well, apart from the log fire.

kacy5 - 2020-09-13 19:38:00

This message was deleted.

sleek_lizzy - 2020-09-13 21:16:00

The member deleted this message.

andrew697 - 2020-09-14 06:45:00

sleek_lizzy wrote:

Just because you CAN contest a Will, doesn't mean you SHOULD, nor might you have any inclination of WINNING any said legal battle. And IF you do perhaps win, then a very large majority of the estate will go to the LAWYERS.. So just face it, they're the only ones who stand to win when contesting a Will.

IMO contesting a Will is disrespectful, derogatory and hard core ill-will to the one who has just passed away. I would never do it myself, nor recommend anyone else to, either. It goes against all the GOOD one has shown/proved themselves to be, all their life, as a fellow human being. If you contest a Will, then you're doing it out of pure anger and spite to the person who's just passed. It shows how low YOU really are. Not them.

see 112. Also see the article I posted for precedent cases.

Unfortunately some wills also show how spiteful some parents are.

Better to not rely on any inheritances and just work hard to get oneself in a position where they financially and physically set up.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-14 07:52:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 08:03:00

cameron-albany wrote:

I can't imagine renting homes when you're in your 80's - frail and potentially unwell.

One of the saddest letters I've ever had in my job was from an elderly man who'd just been given notice. He'd lived in the house for decades. His wife had only died in the last year. He mentioned the decades of memories of their married life, the garden he'd tended for so many years.
The owner had sold the property, and the new owner had given him notice. There was nothing he could do, nor of course anything we could do either.

Now, you can say all sorts of things about how he was lucky to have lived there for so long, and why didn't they buy a house earlier in life (I have no idea about his broader or younger financial situation), or why didn't he make sure to get a fixed term tenancy, or whatever. None of that changes the reality that a grieving elderly widower had to leave his home.

The point of this was not (OK, maybe a little bit) to question how we treat housing and long-term tenure rights, but to encourage anyone approaching retirement to do all you can to ensure you have a future-proofed housing solution, by which I mean a home you can age in (and afford to age in) with dignity right up to the point you're no longer capable of looking after yourself anyway. On the flat with no interior stairs; set up so it's easy at some point to install grab rails where you need them; affordable; somewhere close to amenities for when you can't drive any mroe. Getting a camper van and touring the country might sound like a fun idea when you're 60 and fit, but I doubt it'll be as appealing when you're 80 and have had a fall. I wouldn't be doing it unless I had a backup option for when it wasn't doable any more.

With house prices being what they are compared to wages, there will be increasing numbers of people who won't be able to afford to do that, and government super doesn't go far when you've got to pay rent with it. Avoiding increasing levels of elderly poverty is yet another reason to try to find some solution to our ongoing, untenable, housing crisis.

luteba - 2020-09-14 08:05:00

sleek_lizzy wrote:

Just because you CAN contest a Will, doesn't mean you SHOULD, nor might you have any inclination of WINNING any said legal battle. And IF you do perhaps win, then a very large majority of the estate will go to the LAWYERS.. So just face it, they're the only ones who stand to win when contesting a Will.

IMO contesting a Will is disrespectful, derogatory and hard core ill-will to the one who has just passed away. I would never do it myself, nor recommend anyone else to, either. It goes against all the GOOD one has shown/proved themselves to be, all their life, as a fellow human being. If you contest a Will, then you're doing it out of pure anger and spite to the person who's just passed. It shows how low YOU really are. Not them.

I could have and should have, but decided in the end not worth my time.
He was a derelict father, who only recognised me as his son on my mothers death bed.
I was about 35 at the time.
Got a sorrowful letter sent to the wife, as he knew I would not open it, if sent to me.
Soon after he passed on and NO notice was sent to me of his death.
House and contents went to his second lot of sons.
Not sure wether my older siblings got anything, as I have little to nothing to do with them.
If I ever go back home, I may dance or spit on his grave.
But again, why bother?

He was a dead beat dad in life.
Death was the same, from the out come!

smallwoods - 2020-09-14 08:10:00

mals69 wrote:

Interesting links thanks lake.

Food for thought for me, I might one day challenge my sperm
donors will if need be. The guy couldn't even pay the $4 aweek
child maintenance the courts ordered him to pay my struggling
mum. He has been a multi-millionaire for decades to boot.

why wouldn’t you? Especially since he didn’t pay child support. Under New Zealand law you would have a very good case for it.

I thought the case with the Supreme Court judge and his lawyer wife was very interesting.

lakeview3 - 2020-09-14 08:30:00

smallwoods wrote:

....If I ever go back home, I may dance or spit on his grave. But again, why bother?

He was a dead beat dad in life. Death was the same, from the out come!

Now and again there is a story in the media about someone who died alone and nobody knew for weeks. May even have had family.

There are plenty of good reasons people have no friends and why family stay well away. Just because people old doesn't mean they are nice. Some people are just mean, horrible, violent and if nobody cares they died well that is karma.

artemis - 2020-09-14 12:41:00

mals69 wrote:

Mum lives in an over 60's and is mortgage free from going
without. Her neighbour had loads of overseas holidays
in her younger days and has a mortgage still at 70 something,
but her mortgage is topped up by WINZ. !!

Topped up......right.
Used to be you could run the calculator online...for instance friend of mine was out of work, her mortgage is $800 fortnight. Winz gave her $45 a week accommodation supplement.
Hardly topping up is it...
People end up with a mortgage in later years for many reasons, often a divorce is a big factor in having to start over.

lythande1 - 2020-09-14 14:43:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 16:50:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 17:04:00

mals69 wrote:

.....
The lady in question husband died and they still had a mortgage, if they
didn't do so many overseas trips may not have had a mortgage still.......me being a man of principle - sell your house and stop sucking on the government tit! ...

A man of principle?

mazalinas - 2020-09-14 19:08:00

The member deleted this message.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 22:51:00

mals69 wrote:

And who are you when you are at home with your cheap
potshot ? Oh that'll right a right nobody around here.

hahahaha

mazalinas - 2020-09-14 22:53:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 22:54:00

mals69 wrote:

Is that all you got ? Not so lippy now.
.....

Hahaha a "Once Were Warriors" keyboard warrior hahahaha

mazalinas - 2020-09-14 23:00:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-14 23:03:00

lythande1 wrote:

Well I sold mine and moved in with aged mother, to her house.
I don't get her house though, it goes to my brother who has disabilities, but I guess I'm now the care giver.

Should see if you can get some type of caregiver payment. Years ago there were quite a few hurdles to jump over e,g gp's letter/ assessment of elderly parent etc. No guarantees a sibling might end up with a house. Elderly parent ends up in aged care could end up being asset stripped to pay for care.etc. I dislike to think of what elderly care could cost in 20 to 30 years time in NZ, for the people with assets and savings.

serf407 - 2020-09-15 10:25:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-09-15 16:00:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-09-15 16:09:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-09-15 16:13:00

This message was deleted.

andrew697 - 2020-09-15 16:18:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-15 18:10:00

Usually to a retirement complex govt subsidised. I'm told, the poor through life choices don't live that long in retirement.. They say in some rest homes the staff can't even remember how many WINZ tenants have been through the place in 12 months. Long retirements are for the well off. The stats prove it.. prove me wrong?

cadmus - 2020-09-16 21:31:00

cadmus wrote:

Usually to a retirement complex govt subsidised. I'm told, the poor through life choices don't live that long in retirement.. They say in some rest homes the staff can't even remember how many WINZ tenants have been through the place in 12 months. Long retirements are for the well off. The stats prove it.. prove me wrong?

Why did you assume that we would doubt you?

apollo11 - 2020-09-16 23:47:00

cadmus wrote:

Usually to a retirement complex govt subsidised. I'm told, the poor through life choices don't live that long in retirement.. They say in some rest homes the staff can't even remember how many WINZ tenants have been through the place in 12 months. Long retirements are for the well off. The stats prove it.. prove me wrong?

People do not move into rest homes until they are quite unwell. They have been called de facto hospices. It is not surprising if the stays are not long, median well under 2 years. But they may have had long retirements before this.

artemis - 2020-09-17 06:11:00

apollo11 wrote:

Why did you assume that we would doubt you?

Generally anyone who says "the stats prove it - prove me wrong" needs to be doubted.

sparkychap - 2020-09-17 07:21:00

sparkychap wrote:

Generally anyone who says "the stats prove it - prove me wrong" needs to be doubted.

The question mark on the end makes him sound unsure of himself.

apollo11 - 2020-09-17 07:49:00

Perhaps there is a 'special injection' for the winz tenants?

apollo11 - 2020-09-17 07:52:00

serf407 wrote:

Should see if you can get some type of caregiver payment. Elderly parent ends up in aged care could end up being asset stripped to pay for care.etc. .

Nope. Can't.
only assets my mum has is the house. My brother has some disabilities too. Hence me being here.

lythande1 - 2020-09-17 07:58:00

This message was deleted.

mals69 - 2020-09-17 08:36:00

Holiday parks, in the fringes of the city, are much cheaper than a retirement home, yet one needs about $260,000. A half if you can find a paying partner.

aklreels - 2020-11-26 13:00:00

aklreels wrote:

Holiday parks, in the fringes of the city, are much cheaper than a retirement home, yet one needs about $260,000. A half if you can find a paying partner.

I'm guessing they'll have to be re-named "retirement parks" in the next few years. Will be a fair few people for whom a caravan (or cabin) is the only option.

cameron-albany - 2020-11-26 14:53:00

aklreels wrote:

Holiday parks, in the fringes of the city, are much cheaper than a retirement home, yet one needs about $260,000. A half if you can find a paying partner.

These or similar, have been available for ages in Australia. Usually a site is acquired in a nice spot, eg beach front, but not in a high priced area. Retirees rent or buy a piece of land and build or move their own place on.

There are long stay options, don't think we have those here in similar places.

They are pretty much trailer parks for the retired with only average means.

Business opportunity in New Zealand if councils would permit it.

artemis - 2020-11-26 15:06:00