Hi lbell.. When I transfer the dough from the bowl onto the floured surface, I kind of roll the dough out of the bowl onto the floured surface, so the underside sticky side of the dough ends up on the bottom, against the flour. The top then doesn't have any flour on it.. I press the dough out gently with my hands, without using flour, so the top stays flour free. As I pick up each piece of dough to shape it for rolls, etc.. I have my fingers apart, and slightly toss the piece of dough in my hand, with the floured side down - the flour falls onto the board through my fingers, so any surplus comes off, and there's none on the outside to show after the rolls are cooked.. Hope this helps.. please ask if I can help further.. Cheers.. Julie

juliewn - 2007-01-28 18:53:00

Thanks Uli.. am looking forward to seeing your recipes.. have not made this type of bread before.. Cheers.. Julie

juliewn - 2007-01-28 18:54:00

Hi Uli I have just finished making a rye sourdough starter (first attempt). Made the bread this afternoon as per the recipe I have and then it said to let sit for 4-12 hours to rise. Mine has been sitting since 10am but has barely risen. Not sure if I've done something wrong. Put it in the oven anyway and will see what comes out!! Will look forward to your recipe when you have time.

caroline66 - 2007-01-28 21:12:00

Huh - by now it is too late to tell you that you need to add a bit of yeast, the brick would have been baked by now. Sorry for not checking in earlier. A fresh sourdough is going sour rather quickly. However the yeasts will need longer to get strong enough to raise the bread. So in the beginning it is advisable to add some yeast until the sourdough is getting a bit older and better. Sorry to take so long to respond!

uli - 2007-02-01 13:54:00

And also the rising time of 4 to 12 hours is a bit over the top! A sourdough will keep feeding and turning the whole loaf more and more sour until it is baked. So if you leave it foer 12 hours in the heat we are having currently then you have a completely sour bread. it will be as if you have made the bread entirely out of sourdough!! This is why you need to add a bit of yeast in the beginning so you can bake it earlier before it all goes sour. So here the first simple recipe:

uli - 2007-02-01 13:58:00

Pure Rye sourdough bread 1kg Rye flour,
1kg sourdough (remember to keep a bit!),
0,5 l warm water (or maybe a bit less or more depending on the consistency of the dough),
1 Tsp (=25 g) salt.
If wished you can add:
1-2Tsp of any of the following (or mixed): Cardamom, Caraway seeds, aniseed, fennel seeds.

For a young sourdough like yours I would recommend to add some yeast to the warm water to
make sure it will rise enough. After keeping and feeding the sourdough for a while it should have
enough yeast itself to rise your bread but for the first few attempts its a good idea to give it a bit
of a hand. Mix all together in a big bowl and knead with your hands. It will be very sticky (due to
the rye). Leave to rest and rise for about half an hour in a warm place, not longer!

uli - 2007-02-01 14:00:00

Knead again briefly Knead again briefly and fill dough into two tins which have been greased and floured very well.
Stand in a warm place for up to 3 hours to rise, then bake at 250°C for 20 minutes, then a further
40 to 60 minutes at 180°C. Bread should pull in a bit from the sides of the tin and should sound
hollow when tapped. Run a knife around the sides of the tin and turn out onto a wire rack to cool.
Then you should really wait for at least 24 hours until you cut it, as it will be very sticky if you cut
it too early. In case you haven't got that much sourdough available just half or even quarter the
recipe above so you can give it a try this weekend. As you will be adding some yeast anyway you
can also use a bit of wheat flour if you have not enough rye. Good luck!

uli - 2007-02-01 14:01:00

Rye bread does not need to be kneaded as vigorously as wheat flour bread. The structure of the rye bread is not derived from the gluten as is the case in wheat breads. For that reason it is enough to simply mix the dough in a bowl and then transfer it into a tin to bake. That way it can also be kept wetter than if you try and bake it as a loaf on a baking sheet. I usually use freshly milled wholemeal flour. If you do not have flour mill you can buy this at good health food shops who will get it from the wholesalers in Auckland or Tauranga.

uli - 2007-02-01 14:06:00

Sourdough Potato Bread 10g dry yeast,
5 1/2 - 6 cups flour,
1/4 cup sugar,
2 tsp. salt,
2 big mashed potatoes,
3/4 cup milk,
1 tablespoon soft lard or butter,
1 cup active sourdough.
I use 5 cups wheat wholemeal and 1 cup rye wholemeal for this recipe, but you can even use white flour if you like. The starter must be active, which means you need to take it out of the fridge the day before and feed it twice or three times some lukewarm water and flour so it is bubbling away waiting for you to use it next morning in the bread.

uli - 2007-02-01 14:11:00

In large bowl In large bowl combine the flours and make a well in the centre.
Into the well put the yeast, sugar, and milk.
When bubbly add the sourdough and stir through.
Now add the salt, mashed potato and fat.

Mix with your hands in the bowl, check if it needs a bit of lukewarm water.

Knead dough on floured surface until smooth (5-20 min.) adding flour to prevent sticking.

Cover and let rise in warm place until doubled (1 1/2 - 2 hrs.).
Knead briefly and divide in half.

Shape each half into a smooth ball and place each on a lightly greased baking sheet.
With a sharp knife, cut slashes in the tops of loaves in any pattern you like.

Cover loaves and let rise until almost doubled (45 min.)
Brush loaves with water and bake in preheated 250 degree C oven for about 35 min. or until
loaves are richly browned.
Let cool on racks.
Makes 2 large loaves.

uli - 2007-02-01 14:18:00

Hey thanks Uli! I used to be very good at breadmaking when I was younger but this is proving more of a challenge.

The other loaf came out with a nice crust but very dense on the inside (wouldn't want to drop it on my toe!). Re-activated some of the starter, so should be ready by Sunday for another attempt!! I now have about 2.5 cups of starter with some frothing. It is smelling nice. How much yeast should I add and should put it in the hot water cupboard instead of just on the bench?

caroline66 - 2007-02-01 15:55:00

I would leave it on the bench for now as it is really quite warm at the moment. I would do the old "make a well in the centre of your flour" thing and add a teaspoon full of yeast granules and a teaspoon of suger and a bit of lukewarm water. Wait until the yeast bubbles and frothes and then add your sourdough and mix it all together with the salt and spices if you want to use any. For rye I often use some caraway seeds and some linseed and a bit of coriander if you like that taste. But just salt is good too, as it doesn't mask the flavour.

uli - 2007-02-02 12:57:00

If the bread was very dense then that means either that it had not enough water and/or not enough yeast. Just try smaller quantities at first so you can figure out what will work with your particular batch of flour. Flours can be quite different from different mills and if it is coarse wholemeal then it takes up more water than if it is fine or even white flour, which can also lead to a dense loaf even if there was sufficient yeast to raise it.

uli - 2007-02-02 12:59:00

If you want to get a bit more technical later on then I can give you some hints on how to do a proper sourdough feeding schedule with feeding amounts and temperatures for the different steps. Especially in winter it is quite important to do it a bit more sophisticated to get good results all the time. If it gets too cold in your kitchen then the bread can get quite sour and have not much taste otherwise and that is not what you want. You want to create a nice symbiosis of acetic acid and lactic acid bacteria together with your yeasts.

uli - 2007-02-02 13:02:00

Easy wholemeal bread without breadmaker 2 C warm water
1 T yeast
1 desert spoon sugar
3 C white flour
3 C w/meal flour
shake of salt
Put water in bowl. Add yeast and sugar- place in sink of slightly warmer water to activate yeast. Grease 2 loaf tins thoroughly.
Remove bowl from sink, add flours and salt.
Put mixture into 2 tins, filling them no more than 1/2 full. Stand tins in warm place till risen to the top- about 20 minutes, may be longer in cooler weather.
Bake for 45 minutes 200 degrees.
Cool on rack.
I have just come back from 2 weeks sailing far from shops and made this every few days- it was much appreciated. Can replace 1/2 C of the flour with wholegrain rye or wheat- sprinkle a little on top of loaf before baking.

katalin2 - 2007-02-02 17:24:00

Hi Uli. Thanks for all your instructions! My second attempt urned out much better this time with the added yeast, although I used water instead of milk (I don't consume cows milk). I did however put it on a baking sheet instead of in a loaf tin and it certainly expanded - sideways!! It was actually pretty good in texture and had a nice sourdough flavour though. Will put it in a loaf tin next time. I only want to make pure rye bread without different flours, so am prepared for it to be heavier that most. Would appreciate the more technical feeding schedule when you have time. Thanks again.

caroline66 - 2007-02-05 17:46:00

Focaccia Bread I got this recipe from a boy I once taught because I noticed he always had yummy bread for lunch. I have made it hundreds of times since. I make the dough in the breadmaker then shape it by hand. I often make a spare batch and put it in the freezer - then when I want to use it I just take it out of the freezer, thaw it to room temp and shape as usual. This is enough for 1 lge or 2 small loaves.

helen59 - 2007-02-05 20:45:00

Focaccia Bread Recipe 2 tsp surebake, 3c highgrade flour, 1t sugar, 1 Tab butter (I use olive oil), 1 Tab milk powder, 1 tsp salt, 300mls water.
Set the machine to dough.
When cycle is complete shape into flat loave/s (I usually do one loaf about the size of a dinner plate).
Dimple the top every 6cm by pressing your finger well into the dough. Leave to rise 30 mins. Combine 2 Tabs olive oil, 1/2 t salt and 1 t dried basil, thyme and rosemary.
Bake 200 20-25 mins.
Variations - ther have been numerous!
Rise for a bit longer for a higher loaf. Or add bacon and onion to the mixture (no salt) Add herbs to the dough. Put grated cheese on top instead of oil etc. No topping. Pesto......... The list is endless.

helen59 - 2007-02-05 20:54:00

good old scones..... Just wondering if anyone has tried making up a scone mix in a breadmaker??? If you can mix up a pizza base and all sorts of like things then a scone mix should be possible too.....

kaiser2 - 2007-02-05 21:03:00

Juliewn Thanks you thank you. What a great series of recipes.

helen59 - 2007-02-05 21:04:00

Thanks Helen.. hope you enjoy them.. ..

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:36:00

Adding Oopie's great recipe-there is no kneading 5 cups wholemeal flour, 5 cups strong flour, 1 tablespoon salt, 1200 mls luke warm water, 1 tablespoon honey, 60 grams compressed yeast. Dissolve the honey in the water and crumble the yeast in. Sift the flours, returning the wholemeal to the bowl add the salt,stir together. Add water/honey/yeast mix and stir with a flat blade or spatula. This will be very sticky. Tip out onto a very well flourd bench and using the knife turn ends to middle to cover ball in flour. Place dough into an oiled bowl, cover with oiled gladwrap and put in a warm place until doubled in bulk (about an hour). Tip out, fill your oiled bread tins 1/2 full, rise in warm place until dough is bulging up from tins. Or form into rolls and place on oiled tray. Bake at 180C until bread is browned and sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom. This keeps fresh and moist for days, makes lovely sandwiches. is fantastic toasted and has no additives or soy in it.

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:37:00

Bunny51's Wholemeal Baps .. yum! 140ml milk, 140ml water, 2 cups wholemeal flour, 2 cups highgrade flour, 1 1/2 teaspoon salt, 2 teaspoon sugar, 4 teaspoon surebake yeast, Place all ingredients in breadmaker, use dough cycle, when dough cycle has finished remove dough and knock back gently divide into 10 even sized pieces Shape each piece into a ball then flatten place on greased oven tray cover with oiled clear film and leave in a warm place to rise about 30 minutes or so preheat oven to 200OC brush buns with milk and dust lightly with wholemeal flour bake for about 15-20 minutes until they are lightly browned turn onto wire rack to cool

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:42:00

Thirtyfiver's Nice light wholemeal loaf This is recipe from one of George Daley's books of bread machine recipes. 3 tsp surebake yeast 1,1/2 cups Hi grade flour 1,1/2 cups whole meal four 1,1/2 TB Gluten flour {in pkt in supermarkets} 2TB golden syrup 2Tb oil {canola is fine} 3/4 tsp salt 1,1/8 cup of water. ok baked on Basic Bake mode, I have to add a bit more water usually put at least 1,1/4 cup just watch after kneading has started,if it looks too dry add TB water at a timeuntil it looks right. The gluten flour is to help loaf not be too heavy in texture,you only need 1TB per 1 cup whole meal keep pkt of gluten in fridge

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:43:00

Bunny51's Basic Wholemeal Recipe: water, 1 1/8 cup water, oil 2 tablesoppns, salt, 3/4 teaspoons brown sugar 1 1/2 tablespoon gluten flour 1 1/2 tablespoon wholemeal flour 3 cups 3 teaspoons surebake yeast. I haven't made this much because my kids find the 100% wholemeal flour recipes too dense so I usually do about half wholemeal and half highgrade flour instead

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:44:00

Bunny51s Light Wholemeal Bread Loaf
350ml water, 3 cups wholemeal flour, 1 cup highgrade flour, 2 teaspoon salt, 2 teaspoon sugar, 2 tablespoon oil, 4 teaspoon surebake yeast, Might need to just check the water content in this recipe to make sure it isn't too dry

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:45:00

Bunny51"s Chocolate Tea bread: Here is a recipe my kids like as a treat
3 teaspoons surebake yeast, 3 cups high grade flour, 2 tablespoons milk powder, 3 1/2 tablespoons sugar, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 tablespoon cocoa powder, 2 tablespoons ooil, 1 1/8 cup water Put in bread maker basic cycle, add 1 1/8 cup chocolate chips when it beaps (Or in fruit dispenser)

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:46:00

Bynny51's Fruit Loaf 250lmml water, 1 tablespoon butter, 1 teaspoon cloves, 2 teaspoon nutmeg, 1 1/2 teaspoon salt, 2 tablespoons brown sugar, 1 tablespoon milk powder, 3 cups high grade flour, 3 teaspoon surebake yeast, use sweet cycle then add 1/3 cup mixed dried fruit when it beeps

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:46:00

Bunny51's Hot Cross Bun Recipe 1 cup milk, 1 egg, 4 cups flour, 1 1/2 teaspoon mixed spice 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon, 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1/4 cup sugar 4 teaspoons surebake yeast, 1/2 cup currents, 3 taplespoons sultanas, 3 tablespoons peel Put all the ingredients in the breadmaker except fruit when the machine beeps add the fruit (Or if it has a fruit dispenser put the fruit in there) when the dough cycle has finished, take out the dough and place on lightly floured surface, Knock back gently and divide into 12 pieces, shape each piece into a ball place on greased oven tray cover with clear oiled film, leave to rise 30-45 minutes until doubled insize. Preheat oven 200OC Make pastry for crosses by mixing together 1/2 cup plain flour and 2 tablesapoon margarine bind with enough water to make soft pastry which can be piped. spoon pastry into pastry bag fitted with plain nozzle pipe a cross on each bun bake bun for 15-18 minutes until golden

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:47:00

Bunny51's Hot Cross Buns cont.
Meanwhile heat together 2 tablespoon milk and 2 tablespoon sugar, stir thoroughly until sugar disolves brush the glaze over the top of the hot buns place on wire rack serve warm or cool

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:48:00

Bunny51's Traditional White Loaf
315 ml water, 1 tablespoon oil or margarine or butter (I use oil) 1 1/2 tewaspoon salt, 1 tablespoon sugar, 1 tablespoon milk powder, 3 1/4 cups bread flour, 3 1/4 teaspoon surebake yeast. This is an Australian recipe so the tablespoons are 4 teaspoons instead of 3 (20 mls instead of 15) put all in breadmaker then basic cycle

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:49:00

Bunny51's Everyday Bread 1 1/2 cups water, 3 cups high grade flour, 1 cup wholemeal flour, 2 tablespoon milk powder, 1 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1 1/2 teaspoon sugar, 2 tablespoon oil, 4 teaspoon surebake yeast, put all ingredients in bread maker in the order that your manual recommends(either dry ingredients or wet first) basic cycle might need to check it while it is kneading to make sure there is enough water

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:50:00

Sunnyflower's Bread Recipe 3 cups high grade flour, 1 and a half teaspoons of salt, 2 teaspoons of dry yeast and 1 cup of lukewarm water, I put mine on the dough setting then cook it in the oven, I take it out after dough cycle and shape into loaves ie french loaf, and turn my oven onto 50 degrees for a couple of mins then turn it off put the loaves in to rise, then heat oven to 180 celcius and put a baking dish full of boiling water at the bottom of the oven then cook the loaves for abt 20 mins, delicious

juliewn - 2007-02-09 15:50:00

Hi there Just transferred these over to the trademe cooks forum thought then they won't get lost

bunny51 - 2007-02-09 20:53:00

hi bunny I tried to get registered there and it said to wait for an e-mail which never came :(

uli - 2007-02-09 22:12:00

Hi Uli.. the email will have a link to be able to activate your account in the site.. I hope you get it to add your valuable contributions to the site Fetish has set up..

juliewn - 2007-02-09 22:47:00

Hi Bunny.. that's great... Hasn't Fetish done a wonderful job of setting the site up.. it's a great asset for all..

juliewn - 2007-02-09 22:53:00

It is a great site Uli I hope you have got it sorted now, Think I had to try a couple of times before my email came through

bunny51 - 2007-02-10 10:24:00

please enlighten me..what site? ...???

weezil - 2007-02-10 10:59:00

For weezil If you haven't been following the threads about bumping (advantages and disad's) you won't be aware of this. Many wonderful threads have dropped off - vanished for ever and are not recoverable unless some kind soul had saved them to their hard drive. This can happen in as little as just over a week! So an alternative longterm storage place has been set up to prevent this but everyone still posts and takes an active role in this BB. Check out this link. http://trademecooks.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=8

wron - 2007-02-10 11:23:00

brillaint site...thankyou for info.. ...

weezil - 2007-02-10 12:13:00

lbell...tried your recipe today and yum... gonna try the other bread this week....thankyou all...love to have a dabble...lol

weezil - 2007-02-10 18:25:00

No - no e-mail for me Even checked the spam filter. And cannot re-register now as my name is "taken"!! (by me of course in my first attempt).

uli - 2007-02-10 19:01:00

Cool recipes I have a breadmaker (finally) now am looking for a few recipes 1x-gluten free (for a friend who's allergic)& 1x multi-grain for me.

thleaf - 2007-02-10 20:52:00

Any one have a bread receipe or knowledge of how to cook on the top of a fireplace. There is no oven so needs to be cooked on top of the fire box.(At the bach --no power) Maybe in a pot???? My mum use to do one years ago in a pressure cooker , but I dont have it or a pressure cooker.Thanks

shiyo - 2007-02-12 03:45:00

bump..please please

shiyo - 2007-02-12 15:52:00

You could make a flat bread in a frypan. Don't have one myself but just googled 'flat bread' and there are heaps!

caroline66 - 2007-02-12 16:58:00

Best bread ever is baked in the camp oven! Try it out!

uli - 2007-02-12 17:47:00

Hi.. camp oven bread is just wonderful.. Use a bread recipe as per one of my first posts.. White, wholemeal, grain etc., to taste. Place inside a very well greased camp oven and cover with baking paper. Place the lid on and cut the baking paper so it's not showing, so the paper edges won't burn. Leave in a warm place to rise till doubled in size - inside a car with the windows just a tiny bit open is good - so it's not too hot. When I've made bread this way, I've placed several layers of tinfoil around the outside of the camp oven to reduce the impact of direct heat. Have the fire at the hot glowing kind of stage - without actual flames.. and hang the camp oven (if possible) just above the glowing part. If not possible to hang it, place some bricks or stones so the camp oven can sit just above the direct heat. Place some hot coals on top of the lid so the top browns. Bake until golden on top.. the chances are the bread will rise and lift the lid!

juliewn - 2007-02-12 22:53:00

Check it's cooked by tapping on the top of the bread - if it sounds hollow, it's cooked. It truly tastes wonderful..

juliewn - 2007-02-12 22:53:00