make your own vinegar
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| 51 | uli.... you need to slow down a little, Who said anything about selling vinegar eels?.....That site is the best I have found to explain the work vinegar eels, do...................... You are consumed with , "make your own vinegar" and " make your own salami" threads......... You are invited to share your wealth of knowledge and experiences. pickles7 - 2009-10-19 07:57:00 |
| 52 | Thanks for all your advice uli and pickles. Please feel free to add as we go along. As a sourdough aficionado who has a small grasp on the understanding of wild yeasts I would probably see very little sense in sterilising my apple juice and then adding a commercial yeast to it when, like grapes, it comes with its own yeast, specifically evolved for that particular fruit. I was hoping to produce a vinegar still filled with the natural enzymes and vitamins of the original fruit so that it will be health giving and life affirming. Am I being unreasonable here? Will I just produce poison instead? I'll have to consider this very carefully. buzzy110 - 2009-10-19 11:59:00 |
| 53 | Thanks for the heads up about Binn Inn. I am going to make a list and call into a shop just as soon as I get my daughter's wedding out of the way (3 weeks and counting down) and her elder sister back on the plane to England. I'm hoping her father can go part of the way with her and really give me some breathing space to think. In the interim I'll keep reading. I wish I could go visit uli's vinegar making in action. Pickles, thank you for all the photos. Each photo fills in a little more detail. buzzy110 - 2009-10-19 12:03:00 |
| 54 | buzzy.... It is up to you if you go with the natural yeasts, it is not something I would do myself, I will be using my vinegar to preserve food, and need to know the vinegar has a acidity of at least 6%. Under that it would be unsafe. I do not want 23 liters of vinegar fit for the making of dressings only.Wine can also be made with natural yeasts, it is something that has been tried commercially by the organic vine yards, more the reason why I choose to sterilise the "must", before adding the yeast. The organic wines do not win the medals. I savour every bottle I make. I found something on here about putting apple skins etc. in a bucket and making cider vinegar. By all means try it. Once again it is up to the person making it. I would not preserve food using that though. Probably wouldn't use it in a dressing either. Sourdough cultures can be a bit hit and miss also, a known culture is needed for reliable results with bread, or you you can end up with a loaf of questionable quality. Another thread coming up I reacon. pickles7 - 2009-10-19 19:34:00 |
| 55 | Pickles - thanks for your concern. However we are trying to live a natural healthy life and in this we are not going to buy chemicals to throw into our food to "sterilize" the life force out of it. We also preserve "pickles" by fermenting foods, so they are still raw when preserved, so the need for vinegar of a certain strength is irrelevent. Besides that - I have found that my homemade traditional cider vinegar is much stronger than the commercial cider vinegar that is set at 5%. pickles7 wrote:
There is a sourdough thread going since a long time. You are welcome to start your own of course :) uli - 2009-10-20 09:23:00 |
| 56 | uli buzzy . are you one, of the same????????????????? pickles7 - 2009-10-20 12:57:00 |
| 57 | This message was deleted. mwood - 2009-10-20 15:53:00 |
| 58 | voted #57 off davidt4 - 2009-10-20 16:08:00 |
| 59 | Last time i looked I was just myself - however I don't think I am dumb. Not quite sure what mwood refers to. uli - 2009-10-20 16:52:00 |
| 60 | mwood wrote: Do you make wine ? mwood. It is not hard, It is , to make a good wine though. We drink ours as soon as we can, we do not put ours away for years anymore. The last two lots I have bottled we were able to drink those within 1 month. Now six months on and I cannot say it has improved any. Maybe it hasn't got room for improvement. lol. pickles7 - 2009-10-20 17:09:00 |
| 61 | No pickles. uli is uli and buzzy is buzzy and never the twain shall meet (except in here of course). It may interest you to know that I started the sourdough thread and except for the first two loaves my bread has always come our perfectly, barring my lack of breadmaking experience, that is. I have also started preserving my foods by natural, lacto fermentation as opposed to cooking with sugar and vinegar and I can honestly say that the quality, taste and general effect is superior to all the little bottles of pickles, relishes and chutneys that I still have left over from last year which I made because I was only experimenting with lacto fermentation preserves last year. This year that is all I am going to do unless the food just is not suitable. Lucky for me I still have a half G of DYC vinegar leftover. Edited by buzzy110 at 5:38 pm, Tue 20 Oct buzzy110 - 2009-10-20 17:34:00 |
| 62 | However, pickles, I understand your desire to get everything right and why you are undertaking the methodology that you are. It would be a shame if all your cooking went bad because of a dodgy batch of vinegar. Perhaps you could do a little, experimental batch of cider vinegar using natural yeasts and compare how it turns out. It probably wouldn't involve you in too much extra work and it would be a great experiment. buzzy110 - 2009-10-20 17:38:00 |
| 63 | true buzzy, you are right. You are lucky to have some good vinegar. Cucumber and vinegar, just is not the same, as it used to be. Do you preserve using sea salt? pickles7 - 2009-10-20 18:26:00 |
| 64 | This message was deleted. mwood - 2009-10-21 10:09:00 |
| 65 | Yes pickles. I only use sea salt in all my sauerkraut, lacto-fermented vegetable and sour dough bread making. I can't remember what or where I read it, but I think there is something is iodised table salt that affects fermented foods in a negative way. buzzy110 - 2009-10-21 10:28:00 |
| 66 | My husband is obssessed with only using cider vinegar in dressings and other vinegar things that aren't cooked so he always brings me home bottles and bottles of the stuff (Braggs) on his overseas travels where it is cheaper. However, I'd still like to try making my own, even if I only get to the cider stage. lol buzzy110 - 2009-10-21 10:29:00 |
| 67 | mwood/......Your "vinegar mother" will grow just by using raw cider vinegar...... The way I got my vinegar brewing is not as bad as letting the vinegar flies infect it. I don't have 1 fly inside. You are right to think vinegar may be detrimental to your beer brewing. Vinegar needs to be made well away from wine, It will be the same with your beer. Everything My vinegar touches will not be used for wine or beer making. Good for you never to have made vinegar while brewing your beer, that will be your vigilance to cleanliness. That is how I feel, why put time, money into something you did not set out to make. I am very pleased with my vinegar making. I understand with wine making where you live, we are a bit the same here in Hawkes Bay,lol. But, it has been a hobby of mine for years now, Hard to shake. pickles7 - 2009-10-21 18:15:00 |
| 68 | buzzy..... I have been swigging on my bottle of cider vinegar a while now, I am sure I feel better for it.... Wouldn't preserved food using just salt be detrimental to your health. All that salt????????. You can buy bulk raw cider vinegar, just have not found draught vinegar for years now. pickles7 - 2009-10-21 18:20:00 |
| 69 | No pickles. It is not detrimental to your health. Salt, in moderate quantities is actually not bad for us. Salt becomes a problem when processed foods are the mainstay of your diet. In them is huuuge amounts of sodium. I don't eat processed foods. Also lacto fermentation doesn't have anymore salt in it than your pickles, chutneys and spices and it is even preferable to make them without salt. Sauerkraut actually uses very little salt per quantity of vegetable matter and as it is not eaten in huge amounts there is not a lot of salt being eaten per serving - no more say, than in a few slices of commercially made bread. buzzy110 - 2009-10-22 00:28:00 |
| 70 | Actually pickles chutneys, relishes and pickles, which you say you do an awful lot of, does contain high amounts of sugar which, if you read the Food Lies thread, you would realise is bad for you. I don't even need to ask the question. Simply because I do make those things, I know how much sugar goes into them. Even cutting down the sugar, there is still too much. As a consequence we eat very little of my preserves. They get given out to other people, on the proviso they give me a clean,(without labels) lidded jar in return. buzzy110 - 2009-10-22 00:31:00 |
| 71 | And one other thought for the night. The only fuel usage that goes into making lacto fermented vegetables is the energy it takes for me to heat up a big pot of water so I can boil sterilise my jars. I learnt from my mother that complete and utter sterility is the only way to preserve food. My husband thinks I go over board as everything, including the kitchen benches are doused in hot water and I boil the kitchen cloths as well. Otherwise the process involves no cooking whatsoever. Cool. That means all the enzymes are still available and the food is still virtually raw (but doesn't taste it in some cases) when it comes time to eat them. Currently finishing the last of my beetroot and for a while I didn't realise it wasn't a chutney. Doh. buzzy110 - 2009-10-22 00:37:00 |
| 72 | buzzy.... I have a book on all that , I got to the bit saying to just skim off the scummy mould, the veges .....should.... be ok. If they smell, then throw them out. mmmmm just didn't interest me..... I can see why you would need to boil everything. I don't go to that much trouble, I use a "sulphate" solution to sterilise, my wine making things and they are wrapped up in plastic, waiting for a "score" of fruit, from where my son works.... but as for pickles and stuff I rely on general cleanliness,.... My jars are put through the dish washer, into the oven to dry inside.... May have another look at that book, and try and get past the scary bit.....lol. I am looking into the use of "ascorbic acid", as a preservitive. pickles7 - 2009-10-22 09:16:00 |
| 73 | Oh. I have a proper crock for making sauerkraut and no scum develops at all. When you make fermented vegetables in jars scum doesn't develop either. When I first started making sauerkraut I was not keen to buy a crock till I had tried it. I made my first batch in a bucket, and with careful management I was able to eat nearly all of it and the scum didn't develop till I was almost at the bottom. The scum (or bloom) as it is politely called, isn't toxic but it does taint the food if you get it in it. I just sterilise because that is what I do because my mother always did it that way when she did preserves. We had orchards of fruit and she was always preserving and making things and I never saw her do it without killing every germ in the kitchen. Just her way I guess. I wouldn't boil plastic though. The steriliser is sufficient. buzzy110 - 2009-10-22 17:16:00 |
| 74 | I still have my eyes open for a large Sun Tea type jar with a tap at the bottom to make my cider in. However, I guess, I'll end up using a plastic brewing barrel from Binn Inn or buying one from TM as glass ones don't seem to be thick on the ground in this part of the world. buzzy110 - 2009-10-22 17:19:00 |
| 75 | buzzy...I am going to store the vinegar I don't use for sauce making, in wine bottles. I will finish them off the same as my wine, with labels, and collars on the necks of the bottles. May look up balsamic, thinking I would need to just add molasses? to taste. That would be something similar as I don't have another 50 years to mature the real thing, lol. I am going to use a weed mulcher to crush my apples, a bit cheaper than a waste disposal unit. The quantity would burn my juicer out. pickles7 - 2009-10-23 09:28:00 |
| 76 | by the way there is nothing wrong with plastic, just remember once used for vinegar, it will never be safe for wine. pickles7 - 2009-10-23 09:32:00 |
| 77 | Ah well - this must be why the barrel I used last year for the cider vinegar made such a lovely feijoa wine this season LOL :) uli - 2009-10-23 13:25:00 |
| 78 | There wouldn't be a lot of difference between your vinegar, and your feijohaha wine, uli. pickles7 - 2009-10-23 17:46:00 |
| 79 | Well you must know it - you have obviously tried it. uli - 2009-10-23 21:48:00 |
| 80 | A barrel. What a brilliant idea. Now where do I buy small barrels from at a reasonable price? Does your barrel have a tap in it uli? buzzy110 - 2009-10-23 22:49:00 |
| 81 | uli........I wouldn't be so foolish ......... You were lucky to have gotten away with it.............. I would not make vinegar in the same room as I brew wine........I have a very good understanding of contamination....... The vinegar has been put outside in the glass house, it provides the warmth needed, to turn all that cider into vinegar. I have just put down a tomato wine, just a half gallon jar. The juice was expensive, but once again it was all ready to go. I have a large blackberry vine, just coming into flower, looking at those for another brew. pickles7 - 2009-10-24 08:44:00 |
| 82 | pickles I am glad you are the only one here who knows how to do things and let us all in what is foolish and what not. Seems that your way is the only one available on earth. buzzy - you'll get these barrels in the home brew shops or plastic shops. They have a bung and you can unscrew the bung and screw a tap in. They come in different sizes. The shops also have the hydrometers in case you want to do it scientifically and measure the density/gravity. You can then fine tune the apple juice if you want to and add some sugar, which will give you a stronger wine and later a stronger vinegar. Have a look here: Just copy and paste the whole link it will sort itself out :) uli - 2009-10-24 09:03:00 |
| 83 | uli ..... do you have a "comprehension" problem....????????? You are showing yourself up, to having one!!! pickles7 - 2009-10-24 09:37:00 |
| 84 | Not to be repeated..... uli...... Why take risks with good fruit...You must be very lucky. I don't brew with wild yeast anymore, the last wild yeast I made wine with was a 40 gallon drum of cherries, that shot its lid off, with the build up of gas.I syphoned off 4 x 20 liter containers and continued the brewing on the yeast it had in the must.. Nice wine good alcohol, I had to run it through the still as it gave everyone a stomic rumble. As a liqueur it was easy to put away. soooo very nice. I will not be able to repeat that again, imported sweetened cherries, what luck. pickles7 - 2009-10-24 09:41:00 |
| 85 | pickles7 wrote:
What a spiteful and ignorant remark pickles7. Time to back off. I hope uli is not as offended as I am by your regular cattiness and your inability to recognise the limitations of your knowledge and your inability to express yourself coherently. Uli's contributions to this forum are very valuable, come from a wealth of experience, and are always expressed clearly and plainly. I would hate to lose them. davidt4 - 2009-10-24 12:54:00 |
| 86 | uli. Thank you for the info re: buying a barrel. I think I will go that way as I'm not terribly keen on plastic because no matter how much they say they don't leach, I reckon there is always going to be minute quantities that leach out. buzzy110 - 2009-10-24 15:03:00 |
| 87 | buzzy - sorry to say - I AM talking of plastic barrels :( davidt4 - what can I say - pickles is really saying enough to discredit herself, so now worries there. However I will keep out of HER threads from now on, so she has free reign LOL uli - 2009-10-24 16:10:00 |
| 88 | Yes uli I have just found that out. I think I'll be happy with the plastic barrel. There is someone selling a 5litre oak barrel for $180 but I need to study it more to see if it will do what I want it to. I doubt it though and I'm not sure of my ability to move it about when full. buzzy110 - 2009-10-24 16:18:00 |
| 89 | buzzy110 - would it be worthwhile ring around local wineries and asking if they have any old barrels to sell? I used to be involved in the wine industry and I know that oak barrels eventually lose so much "oakiness" that they are no longer useful for the aging of wine. They used to get sold off to garden centres to be turned into planters. I might be out of date on this but it could be worth a try. uli - you are quite right. Deeply discredited. davidt4 - 2009-10-24 16:22:00 |
| 90 | pickles7 wrote:
What a disappointly nasty comment. kirinesha - 2009-10-24 16:43:00 |
| 91 | lol. pickles7 - 2009-10-24 16:59:00 |
| 92 | Thank you pickles, The whole family is into cider vinegar. 1 teaspoon full of cider in a cup with some honey and boiling water, We are taking it at tea time, part of setting the table. We are probably imagining things as to how we feel. Do you know if raw red wine vinegar is as good for you? Sort of thinking it could be, because it is raw rather than pasteurised. I liked the comments up further lol. grinnbareit - 2009-10-24 19:16:00 |
| 93 | Yes sure dose work..... grinnbareit....hard case name, lol. I don't come in here a lot now, nothing to report until opening day. All smells good though. The wine vinegar I can see, it looks very cloudy right now, has a film over the entire top, and a sediment on the bottom. Smells like vinegar, got a nice sweet smell. The apple cider vinegar is in a black beer barrel , cannot see in, I don't want to take the cloth off the top, nothing can get in, and I don't want to risk my 23 liters of cider..I am thinking I should have put 4 smaller lots down for safety, but too late. smells sweet so should be ok. fingers crossed. pickles7 - 2009-10-27 10:33:00 |
| 94 | This message was deleted. mwood - 2009-10-27 12:10:00 |
| 95 | mwood....ugli comments on my salami thread as well. lol. did you read # 84. Have you had this happen???????? with wild yeasts...We were looking after a factory and the frozen fruit only had a freezer life of 3 months. The fruit that was dumped used to go for pig tucker, they forgot to pick up 5, 40 gallon drums of cherries. I ended up with 26 liters of cherry brandy. Had to invite everyone back for brandy lol. It was funny at the time and no one suffered a great deal. How do you make Schnapps??????? pickles7 - 2009-10-27 19:28:00 |
| 96 | This message was deleted. mwood - 2009-10-28 07:42:00 |
| 97 | mwood ....I have a turbo gold screaming to be feed, with the tastings, I will need to be making, a few bottles. Medicinal Action and Uses... guzzle, after inducing wild yeasts ....Darn, could have done with it years ago. pickles7 - 2009-10-28 16:43:00 |
| 98 | Well, this morning I had to taste my wine vinegar...The mother on the top had sunk, that is a good indication all is done. Well I am ecstatic... What nice vinegar, just goes to show, start with good ingredients , finish with quality vinegar....Now to decide to bottle and leave it raw, or to bottle and pasteurise it....untill I decide it will not come to any harm, where it is.....nwood.... have a go, even 1 bottle of wine , 1 of water, a little raw cider vinegar=2 bottles of very nice wine vinegar.... I will not be buying vinegar again.. I will be making all the vinegar I need from now on.... pickles7 - 2009-11-04 10:14:00 |
| 99 | The member deleted this message. mwood - 2009-11-04 12:26:00 |
| 100 | For anyone wanting to make wine vinegar, I will put the method down again in one post....Pour 1 bottle of white wine, the same quantity of water, as wine, into a glass jar.... [a clean flagon, will be perfect] ....add a 1/2 a cup of raw cider vinegar....cover with a piece of gauze, doubled and put a rubber band on to keep it secure.... Vinegar needs to breath, and likes a warm dark place, to develop. Room temp. is fine, I kept mine covered with a towel to keep it dark....This jar is going to smell very strongly of vinegar, I had no problems with it as I was curious as to what was happening....I looked at it every day.... The process has taken approx. 1 month.. pickles7 - 2009-11-04 12:40:00 |
