sparkychap wrote:

TMI but it's not "the runs" as such but the insides of your bowels sloughing off, as the bowel deteriorates. But they'd rather that than put an unknown vaccination in them...

Right ...I've crossed ivermectin off the list for today.

Just waiting for the second dose of the 'unknown' vaccination. This one I am hoping is the one that gives me the magnet and the 5G stuff. Also hoping it will channel through me the solutions to the world's enduring mysteries such as who killed Pres Kennedy with particular focus on the 'grassy knoll', the involvement of the lizard people in 9/11 and whether 'man' got to the Moon in 1969..

shanreagh - 2021-08-31 13:09:00

shanreagh wrote:

Right ...I've crossed ivermectin off the list for today.

Just waiting for the second dose of the 'unknown' vaccination. This one I am hoping is the one that gives me the magnet and the 5G stuff. Also hoping it will channel through me the solutions to the world's enduring mysteries such as who killed Pres Kennedy with particular focus on the 'grassy knoll', the involvement of the lizard people in 9/11 and whether 'man' got to the Moon in 1969..

You forgot the Bermuda Triangle

thumbs647 - 2021-08-31 13:24:00

sparkychap wrote:

I actually had some rando MAGA nut "arguing" with me on Twitter that as we have one of the lowest COVID death rates in the world, we're wasting our time with lockdowns.

Elimination is impossible, and lockdowns cost up to $1.5 billion per week. That’s an awful lot of hip operations. Those that think lockdowns are great will be the first to whine when public services are cut due to reduced government spending. But I’ll happily remind them that they wanted this.

committed - 2021-08-31 13:25:00

gblack wrote:

You have no idea.

I have a degree in computer science and was a programmer working on systems pre 2000 (and for couple of years afterwards) fixing date related issues. Mostly found minor billing issues and our swipe card entry system failed to unlock on schedule as it lost track if it was a work day or not.

It was overhyped by the media of course, but thousands of developers spent a lot of time and energy fixing stuff then people turned around and said look there was no problems. There was almost no issues because people fixed them, not because there was no issues to start with. How do you not get that?
Of course you know there is still the Unix epoch to come, but most date reliant systems I have worked in use a sliding window (-50/+49) for two digit BCD style dates and I hope most systems will deal with long int roll over in Unix/Linux gracefully

It's like people jumping out of an aircraft, using a parachute, landing safely, then turning around and claiming that you didn't a parachute as you landed safely.

You can look at Sweden who also locked down but not as hard as in NZ to figure out what would have happened here. NZ deaths per million - about 5. Sweden deaths per million - over 1400. How many lotto winners are there?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat
hs-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

I suggest you widen your reading.

“The worldwide scare over the ‘Y2K bug’ result in the expenditure of hundreds of billions of dollars on Y2K compliance and conversion policies. Most of this can be seen, in retrospect, to have been unproductive or, at least, misdirected. In this paper, the technological and institutional factors leading to the adoption of these policies are considered, along with suggestions as to how such policy failures could be avoided in future.“

https://rsmg.group.uq.edu.au/files/1186/WPP04_1.pdf

committed - 2021-08-31 13:34:00

“it became apparent that Y2K-related problems had been insignificant even where little or no remediation effort had been undertaken.“

But planes were going to fall out of the sky I tell ya!

committed - 2021-08-31 13:37:00

committed wrote:

Elimination is impossible, and lockdowns cost up to $1.5 billion per week. That’s an awful lot of hip operations. Those that think lockdowns are great will be the first to whine when public services are cut due to reduced government spending. But I’ll happily remind them that they wanted this.

Just as we will, when you go to hospital for removing your head from up your rear end, as the beds will be available.

Edited by smallwoods at 1:41 pm, Tue 31 Aug

smallwoods - 2021-08-31 13:38:00

thumbs647 wrote:

You forgot the Bermuda Triangle

I'll add it to list. I am sure that there will be a list like a pick & mix lolly selection at the supermarkets that I will be able to choose from.....

Edited by shanreagh at 2:09 pm, Tue 31 Aug

shanreagh - 2021-08-31 14:06:00

committed wrote:

Elimination is impossible, and lockdowns cost up to $1.5 billion per week. That’s an awful lot of hip operations. Those that think lockdowns are great will be the first to whine when public services are cut due to reduced government spending. But I’ll happily remind them that they wanted this.

That's not actually a "cost" to the guvmint, you know. That's an impact on the economy, most of which gets picked up after the lockdown ends.

sparkychap - 2021-08-31 14:40:00

committed wrote:

Elimination is impossible, and lockdowns cost up to $1.5 billion per week. That’s an awful lot of hip operations. Those that think lockdowns are great will be the first to whine when public services are cut due to reduced government spending. But I’ll happily remind them that they wanted this.

If we didn't have the lockdowns we have had and let the virus spread through the population what would be your estimate of health spend providing hospital and medical care?

What would be the cost to the ecomomy as businesses shut down due to illness and death?

Edited by maddie44 at 2:46 pm, Tue 31 Aug

maddie44 - 2021-08-31 14:45:00

gblack wrote:

You have no idea.

I have a degree in computer science and was a programmer working on systems pre 2000 (and for couple of years afterwards) fixing date related issues. Mostly found minor billing issues and our swipe card entry system failed to unlock on schedule as it lost track if it was a work day or not.

It was overhyped by the media of course, but thousands of developers spent a lot of time and energy fixing stuff then people turned around and said look there was no problems. There was almost no issues because people fixed them, not because there was no issues to start with. How do you not get that? .....

Completely 100% agree. Sure some things were 'fixed' that might have been fine. But there was a huge amount of risk assessment done and for the most part the impacts of doing nothing were well understood.

artemis - 2021-08-31 17:37:00

Swedish "average" death rate is 0.92%. 2020 death rate was 0.94%.

gblack wrote:

You have no idea.

I have a degree in computer science and was a programmer working on systems pre 2000 (and for couple of years afterwards) fixing date related issues. Mostly found minor billing issues and our swipe card entry system failed to unlock on schedule as it lost track if it was a work day or not.

It was overhyped by the media of course, but thousands of developers spent a lot of time and energy fixing stuff then people turned around and said look there was no problems. There was almost no issues because people fixed them, not because there was no issues to start with. How do you not get that?
Of course you know there is still the Unix epoch to come, but most date reliant systems I have worked in use a sliding window (-50/+49) for two digit BCD style dates and I hope most systems will deal with long int roll over in Unix/Linux gracefully

It's like people jumping out of an aircraft, using a parachute, landing safely, then turning around and claiming that you didn't a parachute as you landed safely.

You can look at Sweden who also locked down but not as hard as in NZ to figure out what would have happened here. NZ deaths per million - about 5. Sweden deaths per million - over 1400. How many lotto winners are there?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat
hs-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

billsmith - 2021-08-31 18:54:00

leson wrote:

Over level 4 they have had a builder there about 5 times for most of the day and none wear masks and now an electrician is there at the same time as the builder.
Im having a vent as I'm doing what I'm supposed to do yet these tradies and neighbors are getting renovations done in level 4.

No doubt others have already mentioned there are some things allowed to be done in level four. If it is something that effects health and safety then you are allowed to, and should, get tradeies in. For example, a faulty hot water cylinder, leaking pipes or roof, faulty toilet or shower, broken window or door, just to name a few. I know someone myself who had their old shower removed and painting started on their house before the lock down. The new shower was allowed to be installed during level 4 and a leak repaired, but the painting has to wait.

curlcrown - 2021-08-31 18:59:00

shanreagh wrote:

QED indeed, taps side of nose.......say no more!

Did you ask them how their stocks of Ivermectin and or Janola were holding up, and the associated stocks of toilet paper? Gives you the runs (unsurprisingly) apparently when you just take the stock remedy. .

The stock as in sheep cattle version doesn't just give you the runs, it makes you spew like you've never spewed before, it knocks the living sh!t out of you, apparently knocks the liver or kidneys around quite badly as well.
Its a pour on and its water fast, so if you get any on your skin it will get into your system and its not possible to wash off with water, actually not a lot gets it off so I found out.

And yes, I have the T shirt, from putting it on cattle and the hose split from the backpack.

Edited by mrcat1 at 7:45 pm, Tue 31 Aug

mrcat1 - 2021-08-31 19:39:00

lyl_guy wrote:

This is what I'm finding bizarre and a bit frustrating. The people who are saying - we're having so few deaths, we're locking down for nothing, we don't need vaccines, don't need masks - it's not 'a thing' in NZ.

Well, it's not a 'thing' because of all of the above, and the hard work that's going on.... as you've rightly pointed out. Not sure what people are blinded by, but they're just not getting it are they.

USA currently at around 660K dead
You KNOW they are doing it right aye, well you know. ... USA is always doing everything bigger & better then anybody else.

mrfxit - 2021-09-01 22:09:00

committed wrote:

I suggest you widen your reading.

“The worldwide scare over the ‘Y2K bug’ result in the expenditure of hundreds of billions of dollars on Y2K compliance and conversion policies. Most of this can be seen, in retrospect, to have been unproductive or, at least, misdirected. In this paper, the technological and institutional factors leading to the adoption of these policies are considered, along with suggestions as to how such policy failures could be avoided in future.“

https://rsmg.group.uq.edu.au/files/1186/WPP04_1.pdf

So how does that work with Windows 11 expected hardware upgrade demands.
Anything more then about 3 maybe 4 years old probably won't run win11.
You can bet thats going to cost business's a lot more then anything to do with win2k

mrfxit - 2021-09-01 22:13:00

sparkychap wrote:

That's not actually a "cost" to the guvmint, you know. That's an impact on the economy, most of which gets picked up after the lockdown ends.

You seem to think the Government can borrow money that doesn’t need to be repaid. That might surprise those doing the lending. And every dollar wasted on an elimination strategy is a dollar that can’t be spent elsewhere.

committed - 2021-09-01 22:15:00

maddie44 wrote:

If we didn't have the lockdowns we have had and let the virus spread through the population what would be your estimate of health spend providing hospital and medical care?

What would be the cost to the ecomomy as businesses shut down due to illness and death?

You missed the bit that elimination is impossible. After many weeks of foolishly trying to do the impossible, the NSW premier has finally thrown in the towel. Do you think our PM will ever admit she got it wrong?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/zero-covid-just-not-p
ossible-gladys-berejiklian-says/100400692

committed - 2021-09-01 22:26:00

committed wrote:

You missed the bit that elimination is impossible. After many weeks of foolishly trying to do the impossible, the NSW premier has finally thrown in the towel. Do you think our PM will ever admit she got it wrong?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/zero-covid-just-not-p
ossible-gladys-berejiklian-says/100400692

I didn't miss anything, and that article says no such thing but anyway ...
awaits your answer
"If we didn't have the lockdowns we have had and let the virus spread through the population what would be your estimate of health spend providing hospital and medical care?

What would be the cost to the ecomomy as businesses shut down due to illness and death?"

Edited by maddie44 at 10:44 pm, Wed 1 Sep

maddie44 - 2021-09-01 22:43:00

I’m not sure which article you read but the NSW Premier talks about suppressing cases and “No amount of government intervention or lockdown is going to get you to zero cases."

You are asking me to speculate. We have enough speculation from so-called experts, which is often wide of the mark. At the beginning of this outbreak Shaun Hendy predicted 50-120 cases of Covid. Within a couple of days he had revised his estimate to 1000 cases. Speculation is not helpful but doing the right thing is.

I note that between 500 and 600 people die from the flu each year. Do you think we should close down businesses and keep people at home until after winter to prevent some of those deaths? That would be an interesting and ultimately unaffordable approach.

Edited by committed at 7:38 am, Thu 2 Sep

committed - 2021-09-02 07:34:00

committed wrote:

I’m not sure which article you read but the NSW Premier talks about suppressing cases and “No amount of government intervention or lockdown is going to get you to zero cases."

You are asking me to speculate. We have enough speculation from so-called experts, which is often wide of the mark. At the beginning of this outbreak Shaun Hendy predicted 50-120 cases of Covid. Within a couple of days he had revised his estimate to 1000 cases. Speculation is not helpful but doing the right thing is.

I note that between 500 and 600 people die from the flu each year. Do you think we should close down businesses and keep people at home until after winter to prevent some of those deaths? That would be an interesting and ultimately unaffordable approach.

And no one is being compelled to have the influenza vaccine, nor be forced into quarantine if they are infected with it.

curlcrown - 2021-09-02 08:15:00

curlcrown wrote:

And no one is being compelled to have the influenza vaccine, nor be forced into quarantine if they are infected with it.

A couple of points:

Covid kills far more people than the flu - around 10 times more, and with Delta that will possibly rise.

No-one is being forced to have the Covid vaccine either.

As for the flu vaccine - there would no doubt be many more deaths from flu if the vaccine option for that was not being taken up.

Edited by kitty179 at 8:37 am, Thu 2 Sep

kitty179 - 2021-09-02 08:35:00

committed wrote:

I’m not sure which article you read but the NSW Premier talks about suppressing cases and “No amount of government intervention or lockdown is going to get you to zero cases."

You are asking me to speculate. We have enough speculation from so-called experts, which is often wide of the mark. At the beginning of this outbreak Shaun Hendy predicted 50-120 cases of Covid. Within a couple of days he had revised his estimate to 1000 cases. Speculation is not helpful but doing the right thing is.

I note that between 500 and 600 people die from the flu each year. Do you think we should close down businesses and keep people at home until after winter to prevent some of those deaths? That would be an interesting and ultimately unaffordable approach.

Very few people suffer LONG term effects from the flu.
Some (approx 600/yr) die from it, yes.
Can't get more long term than that, I suppose.

And yet, the young can and will contract covid, with way more than a few have LIFE long medical needs.

smallwoods - 2021-09-02 08:36:00

That's why we have Covid O'Brien - someone has to ask the hard questions

funkydunky - 2021-09-02 08:39:00

curlcrown wrote:

And no one is being compelled to have the influenza vaccine, nor be forced into quarantine if they are infected with it.

Exactly, and yet all we hear is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Yeah that is going to work, especially after reports of a vaccine-related death here and a number of reported serious adverse events.

committed - 2021-09-02 08:40:00

smallwoods wrote:

Very few people suffer LONG term effects from the flu.
Some (approx 600/yr) die from it, yes.
Can't get more long term than that, I suppose.

And yet, the young can and will contract covid, with way more than a few have LIFE long medical needs.

How many young people have died from Covid in NZ?
How many young people committed suicide in NZ last year?
How many young people died on the roads in NZ last year?

committed - 2021-09-02 08:43:00

committed wrote:

Exactly, and yet all we hear is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Yeah that is going to work, especially after reports of a vaccine-related death here and a number of reported serious adverse events.

It is working, actually. Most New Zealanders are already or will be vaccinated. Vaccine-related deaths and misadventures are easily put into context when you get your news sources from a reliable place. It is easily seen that vaccinations are preventing almost 100% of hospitalisations and deaths from Covid. Deny it as much as you like - those are the facts and the vaccination remains the best tool we have against the pandemic. Don't get the vaccination if you don't want to - it's your risk - and you will also need to accept that you will have certain restrictions on your activities. There you go. Your choice.

Comparing New Zealand's Covid-related deaths to other fatal events here in this country is meaningless. Road accidents and suicides are not infectious, for a start. Look overseas to see where this thing could go. We have dodged a bullet so far but it wouldn't take much to be in its firing line.

Edited by kitty179 at 8:49 am, Thu 2 Sep

kitty179 - 2021-09-02 08:47:00

committed wrote:

I’m not sure which article you read but the NSW Premier talks about suppressing cases and “No amount of government intervention or lockdown is going to get you to zero cases."

You are asking me to speculate. We have enough speculation from so-called experts, which is often wide of the mark. At the beginning of this outbreak Shaun Hendy predicted 50-120 cases of Covid. Within a couple of days he had revised his estimate to 1000 cases. Speculation is not helpful but doing the right thing is.

I note that between 500 and 600 people die from the flu each year. Do you think we should close down businesses and keep people at home until after winter to prevent some of those deaths? That would be an interesting and ultimately unaffordable approach.

I heard the Premier speaking the other day on their 'live' updates.... She said they will get "more freedoms" - ie. start opening up - after reaching 70% vaccination. Then, at 80% vaccination, things can get back to more normal 'free' living.

Except for those not fully vaccinated (by choice). She literally said "don't expect the same freedoms as vaccinated people if you choose not to be vaccinated".... so yes, that was from the horse's mouth. Nobody (now) is expecting zero cases - that changed with Delta.

We shut down for "one case" it's scoffed at in some stupid overseas countries - well, strange how ONE case is suddenly over 600 cases, with enough patients in ICU and hospitals, that ICU nurses are being flown to Auckland from other parts of NZ, and spinal patients are having to be transferred out of Auckland for care. And we only have 33 in hospital so far.

Work out how it would be if we didn't lock down.

lyl_guy - 2021-09-02 08:55:00

committed wrote:

How many young people have died from Covid in NZ?
How many young people committed suicide in NZ last year?
How many young people died on the roads in NZ last year?

We haven't had many deaths from Covid - "only" 26 in total (I say "only" as I don't think their families would be downplaying that number) BECAUSE of how we managed this.

I would hate to prove you wrong, but you are. If you were proved wrong, that would mean we stop all our measures, not have had the vaccine roll-out, and a heck of a lot more deaths. So, yeah, you just keep on believing you're right, and celebrate our lack of deaths, and I'll do the same.

lyl_guy - 2021-09-02 09:01:00

committed wrote:

How many young people have died from Covid in NZ?
How many young people committed suicide in NZ last year?
How many young people died on the roads in NZ last year?

Last time I looked, road deaths weren't contagious. Seems stupid false comparisons are though.

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 09:47:00

sparkychap wrote:

Last time I looked, road deaths weren't contagious. Seems stupid false comparisons are though.

Well to be fair, poor driving seems to be contagious in NZ.

Suicide might also be contagious.....why else would they suppress media coverage.

sooperdoopa - 2021-09-02 10:54:00

sooperdoopa wrote:

Well to be fair, poor driving seems to be contagious in NZ.

Suicide might also be contagious.....why else would they suppress media coverage.

lol yeah, take your point over the first one. The second is interesting and I have my views that we should be more open rather than the euphemisms we use in the media when there is a high profile case.

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 12:36:00

sparkychap wrote:

lol yeah, take your point over the first one. The second is interesting and I have my views that we should be more open rather than the euphemisms we use in the media when there is a high profile case.

Yep, the current stance doesn't seem to work very well. We are encouraged to talk about mental health but the media isn't allowed to mention this subject in specific cases which is weird.

sooperdoopa - 2021-09-02 15:09:00

sooperdoopa wrote:

Yep, the current stance doesn't seem to work very well. We are encouraged to talk about mental health but the media isn't allowed to mention this subject in specific cases which is weird.

Things have changed over the past few years though.
We have gone from a complete ban on reporting suicide

to the inclusion of where to get help for mental health attached to articles about sudden death

to reporting the death as a suicide.

What is still not reported is how.

maddie44 - 2021-09-02 15:28:00

maddie44 wrote:

Things have changed over the past few years though.
We have gone from a complete ban on reporting suicide

to the inclusion of where to get help for mental health attached to articles about sudden death

to reporting the death as a suicide.

What is still not reported is how.

I'm not sure about that - just look at the reporting about the recent cyclist. Lots of references to her "sudden death" and the pressure of high performance sports environments. But no one saying that she committed suicide, whilst the inference is exactly that.

As part of our awareness of mental health, shouldn't we be calling it what it is?

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 16:38:00

sooperdoopa wrote:

Yep, the current stance doesn't seem to work very well. We are encouraged to talk about mental health but the media isn't allowed to mention this subject in specific cases which is weird.

Agreed. I think we should discuss it all more.

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 16:39:00

sparkychap wrote:

I'm not sure about that - just look at the reporting about the recent cyclist. Lots of references to her "sudden death" and the pressure of high performance sports environments. But no one saying that she committed suicide, whilst the inference is exactly that.

As part of our awareness of mental health, shouldn't we be calling it what it is?

It's because of an antiquated law that make it illegal to mention suicides. Section 71 of the Coroners Act 2006

gamefisher - 2021-09-02 19:52:00

gamefisher wrote:

It's because of an antiquated law that make it illegal to mention suicides. Section 71 of the Coroners Act 2006

thanks gamefisher, I didn't know that. Cheers.

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 19:59:00

sparkychap wrote:

I'm not sure about that - just look at the reporting about the recent cyclist. Lots of references to her "sudden death" and the pressure of high performance sports environments. But no one saying that she committed suicide, whilst the inference is exactly that.

As part of our awareness of mental health, shouldn't we be calling it what it is?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/300386954/independent
-inquiry-established-following-olympic-cyclist-olivia-podmor
es-death

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/shortland-street-ac
tor-francis-frankie-mossman-dies/BH36RWPI4J6FYCW3UDD3NWC7QU/

maddie44 - 2021-09-02 20:05:00

maddie44 wrote:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/30038
6954/independent-inquiry-established-following-olympic-cycli
st-olivia-podmores-death

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/shortland-street-ac
tor-francis-frankie-mossman-dies/BH36RWPI4J6FYCW3UDD3NWC7QU/

Seems they can report a death as a "suspected suicide" but not actually confirm what it was.

sparkychap - 2021-09-02 20:28:00

sparkychap wrote:

Yeah just like the whole Y2K bug thing. All those billions of dollars spend fixing legacy code and replacing hardware with date limited chips so that planes wouldn't just fall out the sky. And how many planes fell out the sky? None. What a waste of money.

Perhaps the planes didn’t fall out of the sky because of the billions spent fixing legacy code?

pico42 - 2021-09-03 08:52:00

rhys12 wrote:

You can report them online, anonymously.

Yeah just leave your name and number and theyll get back to you.....

kitkat66 - 2021-09-03 09:58:00

kitty179 wrote:

A couple of points:

Covid kills far more people than the flu - around 10 times more, and with Delta that will possibly rise.

No-one is being forced to have the Covid vaccine either.

As for the flu vaccine - there would no doubt be many more deaths from flu if the vaccine option for that was not being taken up.

Spanish flu killed 9000 in NZ in 1918.

mrcat1 - 2021-09-03 17:51:00

committed wrote:

Elimination is impossible, and lockdowns cost up to $1.5 billion per week. That’s an awful lot of hip operations. Those that think lockdowns are great will be the first to whine when public services are cut due to reduced government spending. But I’ll happily remind them that they wanted this.

When the money to fight covid runs out everyone will lose their fear of the virus and start fearing starvation instead if the loss of money impacts welfare.

cassina1 - 2021-09-03 22:45:00

cassina1 wrote:

When the money to fight covid runs out everyone will lose their fear of the virus and start fearing starvation instead if the loss of money impacts welfare.

There is already people in the community fearing both, nothing new with that statement.

mrcat1 - 2021-09-04 09:55:00

Theres one major difference between Influenza (A/B/C versions) & Covid.
After ready a lot of different opinions on various forums & news media, the one thing they all miss is this . ...

Influenza is a seasonal event triggered in each specific country by specific seasonal weather conditions.

Covid is a Global event, mostly unaffected by seasonal events & even then, the local weather temperatures only slow down or speed up the infection rates of which a lot of that can be attributed to ppl staying at home in bad weather.

Influenza = seasonal per country
Covid = Global ....

mrfxit - 2021-09-04 14:04:00

gamefisher wrote:

It's because of an antiquated law that make it illegal to mention suicides. Section 71 of the Coroners Act 2006

Big points for citing your source.

thumbs647 - 2021-09-04 14:12:00