tygertung wrote:

NZ is a socialist country, so is UK and Sweden for example.

And so you have shown that you don't understand what socialism is.

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 12:40:00

https://communpedia.wikia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countri
es

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 12:52:00

This is a list of countries considered to be socialist: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-are-consi
dered-socialist.html

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 14:36:00

apollo11 wrote:

This is a list of countries considered to be socialist: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-are-consi
dered-socialist.html

phew we aren’t on it! ????

YET!

lakeview3 - 2021-03-31 14:40:00

Maybe we've dropped off the list with the privatisation of many public services?

I read a book written in the 60s about a guy sailing from the UK to NZ (Autobiographical), it had a lot of philosophy in it, and the guy reckoned that NZ was about as communist as a country could get without admitting it.

tygertung - 2021-03-31 14:56:00

tygertung wrote:

Maybe we've dropped off the list with the privatisation of many public services?

I read a book written in the 60s about a guy sailing from the UK to NZ (Autobiographical), it had a lot of philosophy in it, and the guy reckoned that NZ was about as communist as a country could get without admitting it.

We have never been a socialist country. We have a capitalist market driven system. We have dabbled in elements of socialism such as compulsory unionism and State controlled business, but that all got swept away in the 90's. Why? Because our economy was stagnant. NZ was circling the drain, as all socialist societies eventually do. Socialist policies need to be able to suck the money from a vibrant host, and when the money runs out they collapse.

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 15:27:00

apollo11 wrote:

We have never been a socialist country. We have a capitalist market driven system. We have dabbled in elements of socialism such as compulsory unionism and State controlled business, but that all got swept away in the 90's. Why? Because our economy was stagnant. NZ was circling the drain, as all socialist societies eventually do. Socialist policies need to be able to suck the money from a vibrant host, and when the money runs out they collapse.

we could have kept some more elements of it though. Instead of doing away with the lot.

I remember growing up in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It was flipping utopia!

lakeview3 - 2021-03-31 15:49:00

lakeview3 wrote:

we could have kept some more elements of it though. Instead of doing away with the lot.

I remember growing up in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It was flipping utopia!

Which elements would you have kept?

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 15:54:00

apollo11 wrote:

Which elements would you have kept?

state housing, some form of unions, not sold telecom, or banks, forestry, railways, ministry of works retained, post office, electricity companies. Probably left a few things out.

All we needed was more accountability from the paper pushers and managers. People with jobs working for an govt organisation that didn’t necessarily make much money is way better than people not working. NOw we have generations of people who don’t even know what work is.

Edited by lakeview3 at 3:59 pm, Wed 31 Mar

lakeview3 - 2021-03-31 15:58:00

Governments can't run companies, that's why they were all sold off. BNZ, and Railways were both basket cases. I'm on the fence about critical infrastructure like telecommunications, railways and electricity. They were effectively handing private companies a monopoly and telling them to go pillage. Sell off the companies but keep control of the infrastructure perhaps? Companies pay a rental to use infrastructure and the rental goes towards maintenance and upgrades?
Unionisation should always be voluntary. I've seen companies fold because of union activity and the entire workforce out of a job.

apollo11 - 2021-03-31 16:40:00

apollo11 wrote:

Governments can't run companies, that's why they were all sold off. BNZ, and Railways were both basket cases. I'm on the fence about critical infrastructure like telecommunications, railways and electricity. They were effectively handing private companies a monopoly and telling them to go pillage. Sell off the companies but keep control of the infrastructure perhaps? Companies pay a rental to use infrastructure and the rental goes towards maintenance and upgrades?
Unionisation should always be voluntary. I've seen companies fold because of union activity and the entire workforce out of a job.

yes agree with your thoughts.

I know a bit about the forestry, family involvement for several generations, that was a big asset and frankly one that New Zealand built itself off the back of. It was a mistake getting selling that.

lakeview3 - 2021-03-31 17:00:00