gunna-1 wrote:

I think a tax on multiple rental properties and empty homes is the way to go, some people might have a dozsen empty homes for all we know, make an exemption for one rental property per person, and an exemption for an empty home for being renovated, or has some other significance apart from being an ordinary home, i cant see who that would hurt, apart from people who are causeing the problems.

If I had an empty house I don't see why it should concern the Government, nor anyone else, if I leave it empty for whatever reason. I could put a few bales of hay in it and call it a hayshed if it was in our rural area.

kacy5 - 2020-11-30 17:32:00

kacy5 wrote:

If I had an empty house I don't see why it should concern the Government, nor anyone else, if I leave it empty for whatever reason. I could put a few bales of hay in it and call it a hayshed if it was in our rural area.

Because there is a housing shortage and you're contributing to it. Making it less lucrative to land-bank, without providing someone with a house to live in, might discourage people from doing it.

loose.unit8 - 2020-11-30 18:10:00

This message was deleted.

gunna-1 - 2020-11-30 18:16:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Because there is a housing shortage and you're contributing to it. Making it less lucrative to land-bank, without providing someone with a house to live in, might discourage people from doing it.

Vancouver has an empty homes tax. It brings in about $20mill Canadian a year. Population 2.5 million with about half a mill Chinese. Good chance some Chinese are parking their money there and not worried about income from rent.

Hopefully New Zealand will do the numbers carefully if they want to bring in a vacancy tax. Frankly looks like it would cost more to administer than it would bring in. Unless the tax is set pretty high. There is probably a good reason no party is proposing it, apart from the Maori Party and good luck with that.

So posters on this thread - what would you consider a reasonable tax rate on empty homes. Vancouver is moving to 3% on capital value. Too much? Not enough?

artemis - 2020-11-30 19:14:00

And vacant property has decreased by 25% since 2017 in Vancouver.

But I agree with posters above that this isn't really as much of an issue in NZ as claimed.

sparkychap - 2020-11-30 19:30:00

Interesting. They brought that in while I was living there on a working holiday visa. There was a lot of debate at the time I did wonder if it had had made a difference or not (thanks for the stat, Sparkychap)

loose.unit8 - 2020-11-30 20:28:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Interesting-
. They brought that in while I was living there on a working holiday visa. There was a lot of debate at the time I did wonder if it had had made a difference or not (thanks for the stat, Sparkychap)

Source: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-s-empty-home-tax-is-increasi
ng-to-3-next-year-1.5204533

sparkychap - 2020-11-30 20:34:00

sparkychap wrote:

Presumably you mean this press release where they pledge to help affected home owners:

“We know that the coming months are going to be challenging for some and that there are tough conversations still ahead of us. However, our commitment is to work with every customer to keep them in their home,"

Sure, there will be some pain for some home owners but:

1: most people are back on track with normal payments
2: an increased number of sales won't necessarily cause a price drop, banks only have certain capacity for disposal so tend to drip feed onto the market
3: mortgagee sales are at a record low
4: record low interest rates means there are still lots of buyers competing for any properties that do hit the market.

Sure there's always risk to this, and a significant national lockdown could impact this, but I'm looking at a range of data and the outlook is optimistic.

Do you mean about the outlook being optimistic due to the vaccines being available next year? Good Luck if you believe that.

cassina1 - 2020-12-01 00:31:00

from RNZ
"Inland Revenue is cracking down on residential property investors who have sold without paying tax on the profits.
The department is matching tax returns with property transactions and is contacting who might be affected and asking tax advisers to do the same.
The IRD has estimated up to 25 per cent of investors might not have paid the relevant tax."

Will this help, like cooling the housing market? Nah.

aklreels - 2020-12-01 06:48:00

cassina1 wrote:

Do you mean about the outlook being optimistic due to the vaccines being available next year? Good Luck if you believe that.

True and we can't roll out the Vaccine until we're completed the 5G antenna network needed to track the recipients.

sparkychap - 2020-12-01 07:04:00

sparkychap wrote:

And vacant property has decreased by 25% since 2017 in Vancouver.
But I agree with posters above that this isn't really as much of an issue in NZ as claimed.

I did consider quoting the 25% number but could not find supporting info as to the effect on the total housing market in Vancouver. Like for example how many of those were sold on and the proceeds removed from the housing sector, including new builds.

Balloon economics - push one side and another side pops out.

artemis - 2020-12-01 07:18:00

artemis wrote:

I did consider quoting the 25% number but could not find supporting info as to the effect on the total housing market in Vancouver. Like for example how many of those were sold on and the proceeds removed from the housing sector, including new builds.

Balloon economics - push one side and another side pops out.

But if the funding is sitting in an empty house, its doing nothing for new builds...?

sparkychap - 2020-12-01 07:22:00

sparkychap wrote:

True and we can't roll out the Vaccine until we're completed the 5G antenna network needed to track the recipients.

And made sure that the lizard people are not those currently homeless.

shanreagh - 2020-12-01 09:35:00

aklreels wrote:

from RNZ
"Inland Revenue is cracking down on residential property investors who have sold without paying tax on the profits.
The department is matching tax returns with property transactions and is contacting who might be affected and asking tax advisers to do the same.
The IRD has estimated up to 25 per cent of investors might not have paid the relevant tax."

Will this help, like cooling the housing market? Nah.

Who cares if it cools the housing market or not? That's just the right thing to do

loose.unit8 - 2020-12-01 10:21:00

Get rid of Working for Families

funkydunky - 2020-12-01 18:14:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Who cares if it cools the housing market or not? That's just the right thing to do

It is the wrong thing to do as investors are sinking money into commercial buildings and the share market to avoid the risk of paying massive amounts of tax should they need to exit the investment early. This is taking money away from our housing stock.

3tomany - 2020-12-01 18:38:00

3tomany wrote:

It is the wrong thing to do as investors are sinking money into commercial buildings and the share market to avoid the risk of paying massive amounts of tax should they need to exit the investment early. This is taking money away from our housing stock.

I meant collecting the tax / chasing people for it is the right thing to do because that is currently the rule. Whether it's the right rule is another thing.

Edited by loose.unit8 at 11:53 am, Mon 7 Dec

loose.unit8 - 2020-12-07 11:52:00

3tomany wrote:

It is the wrong thing to do as investors are sinking money into commercial buildings and the share market to avoid the risk of paying massive amounts of tax should they need to exit the investment early. This is taking money away from our housing stock.

If they make a profit from ANY investment, they should pay their fair share of tax on it.

sparkychap - 2020-12-07 12:04:00

A tax on empty houses.
Okay, extend it to empty shops and offices too.
Then vehicles that are not used every day.
Where does it stop?

masturbidder - 2020-12-07 12:14:00

Sold my house to first home buyers, I accepted less than the auckland investors offered, feel I have done my bit.

gabbysnana - 2020-12-07 12:58:00

masturbidder wrote:

A tax on empty houses.
Okay, extend it to empty shops and offices too.
Then vehicles that are not used every day.
Where does it stop?

. Well, ????. Would you invest your money in a property, where you don’t get any income from it because it’s empty, and on top of that you still have to pay your rates , insurance , and maybe a mortgage - and the icing on the cake is, you have to pay a penalty tax ..... ????. Uhh that’s going be an interesting outcome !

argentum47 - 2020-12-07 23:01:00

Maybe, it has something to do with raising the minimum wages over the years, which will make everything just a bit more expensive to make or build..... maybe it has something to do with health & safety rules ? Which added on average $15,000 in compliance costs to every new home that’s been build? Or the increase in in petrol taxes that makes things more expensive to cart around ....... or the absurdity of having to purchase transferable titles to be able to subdivide land ( at $225k a pop ) ..... the government has a lot to awnser for when it comes to unaffordable house prices , but it’s easy blame other people for this mess ( you can’t blame the government ????)

argentum47 - 2020-12-07 23:25:00

argentum47 wrote:

Maybe, it has something to do with raising the minimum wages over the years, which will make everything just a bit more expensive to make or build..... maybe it has something to do with health & safety rules ? Which added on average $15,000 in compliance costs to every new home that’s been build? Or the increase in in petrol taxes that makes things more expensive to cart around ....... or the absurdity of having to purchase transferable titles to be able to subdivide land ( at $225k a pop ) ..... the government has a lot to awnser for when it comes to unaffordable house prices , but it’s easy blame other people for this mess ( you can’t blame the government ????)

Amen to that. Expecting the cause of the problem to now be the solution - must be some form of insanity.

Edited by pcle at 6:39 am, Tue 8 Dec

pcle - 2020-12-08 06:39:00

pcle wrote:

Amen to that. Expecting the cause of the problem to now be the solution - must be some form of insanity.

. You can say that again! They are pretty good at this , take roading for example , government is spending billions of $ on it, every year ( apparently it’s pretty expensive to build roads and to maintain them , yet they haven’t figured out that there is no completion in nz when it comes to roading , basically you have 1 company that does it, and without any serious competition you can pretty much charge whatever you want to do the jobs ...... ????. Just imagine how prices would come down if you would get a few Chinese roading / construction company’s in nz ....... just to keep the cost under control ( well petrol taxes , in reality)

argentum47 - 2020-12-08 15:18:00

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kittycatkin - 2020-12-08 18:57:00

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kittycatkin - 2020-12-08 18:58:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-12-08 19:02:00

masturbidder wrote:

A tax on empty houses.
Okay, extend it to empty shops and offices too.
Then vehicles that are not used every day.
Where does it stop?

I’ll add:
Husbands that loaf on the sofa all day, not being useful.

thumbs647 - 2020-12-08 19:11:00

funkydunky wrote:

Get rid of Working for Families

income testing and asset testing super would be more effective. Superannuation is by far and large the biggest welfare cost to this country and outstrips all other ‘benefits’ or ‘entitlements’ put together.

lakeview3 - 2020-12-08 19:16:00

masturbidder wrote:

A tax on empty houses.
Okay, extend it to empty shops and offices too.
Then vehicles that are not used every day.
Where does it stop?

a house (shelter)is a basic necessity of life.

An office, shop and a vehicle are not.

But you already knew that.

lakeview3 - 2020-12-08 19:17:00

lakeview3 wrote:

a house (shelter)is a basic necessity of life.

An office, shop and a vehicle are not.

But you already knew that.

But the reason for a tax is the same. Owning something not being utilized.

heather902 - 2020-12-08 19:46:00

swinn123 wrote:

Cheaper to move a relocatable house (160 sqm) like we did this year. Although we did already had the land which we have got 18 months left to pay on that has no covenancies. Water at the gate we had put in a septic tank, install power, rewire the house and install a wood burner. All up the house to get it compliant approx $160k. The inside still needes decorating to do over time. I know land isnt cheap but there no way we were going to let a building company make $200k at least out of us. We both drive from Featherston over Rimutakas hill (40 mins) to work. And we were still able to keep our 2 bedroom house in Upper Hutt brought back in 1989 and bring up 4 kids We are both in our early 50s. The house is Featherston is freehold on 6400 sqm.

Thank you for posting this. My mum and dad live on a small lifestyle block and they've said I can build in the next paddock if I like. I've been researching houses ever since but most are still pricey (GJ Gardener Homes, Golden Homes, etc). The only house builder that approaches my budget is Keith Hay Homes. I've thought about relocating an existing house but have found the whole process intimidating. Your post has made me reconsider this.

v_shark - 2020-12-08 19:47:00

v_shark wrote:

Thank you for posting this. My mum and dad live on a small lifestyle block and they've said I can build in the next paddock if I like. I've been researching houses ever since but most are still pricey (GJ Gardener Homes, Golden Homes, etc). The only house builder that approaches my budget is Keith Hay Homes. I've thought about relocating an existing house but have found the whole process intimidating. Your post has made me reconsider this.

nothing wrong with the Keith hay ones, just add a garage or veranda later when budget allows

lakeview3 - 2020-12-08 20:03:00

heather902 wrote:

But the reason for a tax is the same. Owning something not being utilized.

but the reasons for them being empty are different. The empty house could have a family in it instead of someone using it as a bank.

lakeview3 - 2020-12-08 20:04:00

v_shark wrote:

Thank you for posting this. My mum and dad live on a small lifestyle block and they've said I can build in the next paddock if I like. I've been researching houses ever since but most are still pricey (GJ Gardener Homes, Golden Homes, etc). The only house builder that approaches my budget is Keith Hay Homes. I've thought about relocating an existing house but have found the whole process intimidating. Your post has made me reconsider this.

We did it to, Probably cost all of that and the cottage only cost 5k itself. Also owned the land. It is the consents, septic, water tank power, rewiring, and alterations that eat the cash. The drive cost 23k, but we got it sealed. Would have cost about 15k in shellrock and that wouldn't have lasted. So bit the bullet and borrowed for that. Actually had the rest, or got it while things were going on. I actually don't know what it cost all up but had 120k to kick off and it went way over that plus the drive.

bryalea - 2020-12-08 20:06:00

First off accept that the gov doesn't want to do anything about house prices.

They've admitted as much just the other day.

Followed up by articles on here pointing out that a 20% fall would leave us where they were a year ago (and due to deposits etc pretty much no one would be in negative equity)

A 50% fall takes us back to 2016 I think

So house prices can fall quite some way before there are any major effects.

The solutions to the problem of prices are simple, cut the supply of cheap money, don't allow equity in 1 property (or anything actually) to be used to fund another. You want the house come up with cold hard bank transfers.

Let's start to see lots of spin about house prices going down, concerted effort from interested parties prices will go down, gov will intervene if they don't that kind of stuff. Lots of news articles about how it's going to take 50 years for young people to pay large mortgages will help too.No more paid for advertorials disguised as news that prices are only going up & the sky's the limit.

Need to do something else? well banks just need to decide they wont count rent as income. There you go no one can afford the ones they've got never mind the ones they havn't.

We can move on from there if need be but I don't think we'd need to

magicroundbout - 2020-12-08 20:34:00

Supply side I'm not so sure about i just havn't seen the figures to convince me however some issues are easily solved take Wellington. Where are these 80K people we need to build for coming from and how has covid impacted on that.

Lack of housing and bad traffic, well lets talk about moving some bureaucracy out of the city to Wainui, Porirua, Levin, Palmy, Timaru name your place get it out of oh so constrained Wellington and into somewhere cheaper to live with more room.

Why do we not have those conversations?

magicroundbout - 2020-12-08 20:39:00

magicroundbout wrote:

First off accept that the gov doesn't want to do anything about house prices.

They've admitted as much just the other day.

Followed up by articles on here pointing out that a 20% fall would leave us where they were a year ago (and due to deposits etc pretty much no one would be in negative equity)

A 50% fall takes us back to 2016 I think

So house prices can fall quite some way before there are any major effects.

The solutions to the problem of prices are simple, cut the supply of cheap money, don't allow equity in 1 property (or anything actually) to be used to fund another. You want the house come up with cold hard bank transfers.

Let's start to see lots of spin about house prices going down, concerted effort from interested parties prices will go down, gov will intervene if they don't that kind of stuff. Lots of news articles about how it's going to take 50 years for young people to pay large mortgages will help too.No more paid for advertorials disguised as news that prices are only going up & the sky's the limit.

Need to do something else? well banks just need to decide they wont count rent as income. There you go no one can afford the ones they've got never mind the ones they havn't.

We can move on from there if need be but I don't think we'd need to

frankly I am disgusted by the lack of action from the govt. they know damn well they can do multiple things but they choose to do nothing. If they aren’t careful that will be their legacy also.

Leaves most of us politically homeless.

lakeview3 - 2020-12-08 20:46:00

lakeview3 wrote:

frankly I am disgusted by the lack of action from the govt. they know damn well they can do multiple things but they choose to do nothing. If they aren’t careful that will be their legacy also.

Leaves most of us politically homeless.

All the government needs to do is currently what it is actually doing, DO NOTHING !, this is currently the government biggest achievement so it can't be that difficult to stuff up with such a simple task.

Business that require cheap immigrate labour need to be allowed to fail!

Auckland natural population is ZERO / NILL. FCK ME

Current immigration policy is causing nz citizens to be refugees in their own country.

There, problem solved, STOP Unstable Immigration.

ian1990 - 2020-12-08 21:18:00

ian1990 wrote:

There, problem solved, STOP Unstable Immigration.

You mean like Winston promised and campaigned on?
Politicians and Government - Liars, thieves & liars - There's the real problem.

pcle - 2020-12-09 07:19:00

lakeview3 wrote:

a house (shelter)is a basic necessity of life.

No it's not. And it's not a human "right" either.
Many millions live without a house. Plenty doing it right now down Queen St.

But they are nice to have.
And the best known way to have plenty of things is through private enterprise and Capitalism.
The problem we have is over taxation and over regulation. This has destroyed private enterprise and the ability to innovate and supply.

pcle - 2020-12-09 07:36:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-12-09 10:50:00

The member deleted this message.

kittycatkin - 2020-12-09 10:54:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2020-12-09 11:01:00

ian1990 wrote:

All the government needs to do is currently what it is actually doing, DO NOTHING !, this is currently the government biggest achievement so it can't be that difficult to stuff up with such a simple task.

Business that require cheap immigrate labour need to be allowed to fail!

Auckland natural population is ZERO / NILL. FCK ME

Current immigration policy is causing nz citizens to be refugees in their own country.

There, problem solved, STOP Unstable Immigration.

Rock, Hard Place, caught between. I mean who is going to clean those Boomer Bubble Bottoms as they slide into Ryman utopia?! Not us kiwis I'll wager ...

funkydunky - 2020-12-09 18:04:00

pcle wrote:

No it's not. And it's not a human "right" either.

Yes, it is.
United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights
"Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, _housing_ and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control." [Emphasis mine].

Just because there are millions of people who don't enjoy a particular right doesn't mean it isn't one. The right to freedom from torture doesn't cease to be a human right as soon as someone is tortured. It just means the right is being breached.

luteba - 2020-12-09 19:07:00

funkydunky wrote:

Rock, Hard Place, caught between. I mean who is going to clean those Boomer Bubble Bottoms as they slide into Ryman utopia?! Not us kiwis I'll wager ...

apparently some Americans and Europeans are now moving to Asian countries where they have special complexes set up just for caring for elderly people.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/101-east/2020/5/1/thailand
s-last-resort/

Not a bad idea

lakeview3 - 2020-12-09 19:17:00

Make landlords if they want rentals, that every 2nd or 3rd one they own has to be new built by them. It will either increase supply of new houses or get a heap of people out of the speculation market which drives up prices

To many bidders for to few houses.

Edited by peacebird15 at 8:50 am, Thu 10 Dec

peacebird15 - 2020-12-10 08:49:00

peacebird15 wrote:

Make landlords if they want rentals, that every 2nd or 3rd one they own has to be new built by them. It will either increase supply of new houses or get a heap of people out of the speculation market which drives up prices

To many bidders for to few houses.

Yeah. Make life even harder for tenants.
Why not build more houses? Oh that's right - can't afford to due to taxes and bureaucracy.

pcle - 2020-12-10 09:43:00

pcle wrote:

Yeah. Make life even harder for tenants.
Why not build more houses? Oh that's right - can't afford to due to taxes and bureaucracy.

More restrictions, better for landlords. Unless the number of tenants looking for a rental drops a lot they will pay more rent due to demand and increased costs. And will be declined if they look even potentially a tiny bit risky.

Quite possible some locations will be oversupplied with vacancies. Then the borders reopen ...

leonhouses - 2020-12-10 10:07:00