TM Forums
Back to search

THE NEW COIN CLUB

#Post
6401

Welcome to the Coin Club. We are an assortment of newbies and oldbies, amateurs and experts with questions and answers for oldbies and newbies, amateurs and experts in coin collecting, also known as numismatics. Whether you are just getting started, have been collecting for years or have simply found some old coins about the place that you’d like to sell, this is the place to ask your questions.

No one has all the answers, and you may get five differing answers to the same question, yet each may be right in a manner of speaking, especially if opinions are involved. Opinions often vary. If you receive no answer to your query within 48 hours, please ask again.

chefman1 - 2015-06-12 23:37:00
6402

anyone know what year this set was issued? 901536261

"possibly lightly polished" cripes, that creates a dilemma!!

dtpapa - 2015-06-12 23:48:00
6403

can you not read *numnuts*...1933

chefman1 - 2015-06-13 00:27:00
6404
chefman1 wrote:

can you not read *numnuts*...1933

yes I realise the coins are 1933. But when was the set put together? I'm betting it was not 1933!!

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 00:33:00
6405
lester36 wrote:

W
But in the case of professional ie PAID to Grade, the grading should be always the same every time.

'Should' is the key word here. The numeric system 'should' ensure consistency, but it doesn't - people just interpret the number values differently, the same way they interpret the broad headings of F, VF, EF etc. to suit their eyesight, experience or price expectations. It's a game in the US to crack open slabs and resubmit coins in the hope of scoring a higher grade next time round, which just makes a joke of the whole system.

translateltd - 2015-06-13 08:18:00
6406
dtpapa wrote:

yes I realise the coins are 1933. But when was the set put together? I'm betting it was not 1933!!

Wouldn't have been much later. Williams was sourcing coins from the mint and making up sets pretty much in real time. Vince Verheyen in Australia has published an article or two on him (e.g. in Australasian Coin & Banknote magazine).

translateltd - 2015-06-13 08:27:00
6407

According to Mark Stocker's paper on the 1933 coin designs, most of the "new" coins didn't reach here till 1934 (shillings were last, in early April), so that would be the earliest realistic date for the Williams set.

translateltd - 2015-06-13 08:41:00
6408

Hi interesting chat about grading, could the NZ Coin Club send to all 3rd party grading firms Clarke guild to grading NZ coins to help them out and to get better results for collectors?

35 - 2015-06-13 08:59:00
6409
35 wrote:

Hi interesting chat about grading, could the NZ Coin Club send to all 3rd party grading firms Clarke guild to grading NZ coins to help them out and to get better results for collectors?

I don't believe there is a problem with the grading done (of NZ coins) in US of A by ngc and pcgs. Sure, there will always be some variations, as you would expect in an art that is part subjective. I've seen plenty of variation in grades done by the so called experts in NZ (last Mowbray auction had plenty of dodgy grading!).

I suspect it is more to do with snobbery of the so called 'experts'. They are behind the times. If some dude in US of A can source an endless supply of uncirculated NZ coins, and sell them, pro graded and all, for chump change on that "other place" then it does beg the question as to why the market of quality mint NZ coins is so inflated. I don't want to be rude(sorry John Bertrand). But $700 for a 1934 Florin!! If I had a choice between similar coins, but one graded by ngc or pcgs, the other not, then I would choose the graded one!!

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 09:32:00
6410

of course with the H.G. Williams 1933 set, there is no guarantee that they are the original coins. Maybe someone could have put some coins in an empty case? There seems to be some darkening around the lettering on the King George side. I'm not convinced they are genuinely uncirculated, which you would expect if the case was put together in 1933 or 1934.

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 09:45:00
6411

pop of 1.5 million does seem about right for 1933

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 09:58:00
6412
35 wrote:

Hi interesting chat about grading, could the NZ Coin Club send to all 3rd party grading firms Clarke guild to grading NZ coins to help them out and to get better results for collectors?

There wouldn't be a lot of point - the TPGs have their own standards, and even they aren't consistent (even apart from the usual difference between US and non-US grading).

translateltd - 2015-06-13 10:41:00
6413
dtpapa wrote:

I don't believe there is a problem with the grading done (of NZ coins) in US of A by ngc and pcgs. Sure, there will always be some variations, as you would expect in an art that is part subjective.

But there has to be a problem if they grade this as anywhere near AU as you said earlier

dtpapa wrote:

stunning over grading!!

http://www.pcgs.com/cert/30368209

going for bargain price of $750. Be quick, chumps!!

But then again if you dont like the grade they give it you can send it back to get regraded hopefully by a different person to get a higher grade lol

http://www.experts.com/Articles/Make-Money-Upgrading-Certifi
ed-Coins-Get-Cracking-On-Crack-Outs-By-Scott-Travers

mudeki - 2015-06-13 11:52:00
6414

The 1936 Florin is the exception that proves the rule!!

or you can crack a 1941 shilling out of its AU55 ngc graded holder, give it a good clean, and sell it as mint bloom, as has been done on trademe by a certain seller!!

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 11:59:00
6415

one advantage of USA grading is you have a finer scale, useful especially for mint state grades. MS61, MS62, MS63, MS64, etc. You can be pretty sure an MS65 is a good coin!! MS61, not so good!! Both would basically be called unc in NZ.

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 12:18:00
6416
dtpapa wrote:

one advantage of USA grading is you have a finer scale, useful especially for mint state grades. MS61, MS62, MS63, MS64, etc. You can be pretty sure an MS65 is a good coin!! MS61, not so good!! Both would basically be called unc in NZ.

But as I noted earlier, a finer scale is useless if people interpret the numbers differently. If my 60 is your 63 or whatever, what is the point? We agree such an item would be at the top end of the scale, but in the absence of any consistency we might as well stick with the vaguer five or six-grade system that we started with, and let people rely on their eyes and wallets to work out what they are happy with.

translateltd - 2015-06-13 12:23:00
6417
translateltd wrote:

But as I noted earlier, a finer scale is useless if people interpret the numbers differently. If my 60 is your 63 or whatever, what is the point? We agree such an item would be at the top end of the scale, but in the absence of any consistency we might as well stick with the vaguer five or six-grade system that we started with, and let people rely on their eyes and wallets to work out what they are happy with.

after a while you get a good gauge of what is what. For example I might see a coin that is graded MS 64, and think to myself, heck, that's a nice coin, I reckon it could in fact make MS 65, and therefore is a good buy at MS 64 price!! That's another advantage of US grading, you can get a better scale of value of a coin. MS 65 worth more than MS 64 etc. Sure, there will be variation, but you also have your eyes to make judgment if you don't think a grade is accurate.

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 12:41:00
6418

another advantage of the USA grading is there's less room for BSing!!

dtpapa - 2015-06-13 12:48:00
6419

Hi There. We are needing some advice. We recently inherited a large coin collection, mostly NZ coins ranging from the early 1900's including Commemorative coins. Some are in books - John Bertrand. Have no idea if this is a collection is valuable, but have been told it is? Googling some of the coins....some are valued at $750 for the half crowns we have. Should we hang on to? Where do we go to get it valued or to sell if we decide. Thanks

Edited by molly37 at 3:05 pm, Sat 13 Jun

molly37 - 2015-06-13 15:01:00
6420

Can anyone help I have a pile of old coins and would like to know if someone is able to value them for me . I live in auckland

awsneddon - 2015-06-13 15:32:00
6421

@ molly and awsneddon:

If you provide a range of the coins that you have in terms of denominations, years and countries in here, we can offer some guidance, probably including a suggestion that you post photos of certain coins. There are tips on taking good photos on the first page of this thread.

It's hard to explain in just a paragraph or two the ins and outs of coin collecting, but value is a combination of condition, rarity and market demand. Metal content of coins can also play a role, especially with gold, but there are coins made of copper and/or nickel that can be considerably more valuable than a run-of-the-mill common gold coin.

Some coins are made at several different mints in the same year, with a coin from a certain year being made at one mint being considerably more valuable than the same coin for the same year from another mint. This is normally (but not always) a function of the number made. BTW, NZ did not start making its own coins until 1933, so anything before that will likely be British.

The decision to buy or sell is really up to you. Markets fluctuate, but mostly move upwards over time.

echoriath - 2015-06-13 20:32:00
6422
echoriath wrote:

@ molly and awsneddon:

If you provide a range of the coins that you have in terms of denominations, years and countries in here, we can offer some guidance, probably including a suggestion that you post photos of certain coins. There are tips on taking good photos on the first page of this thread.

It's hard to explain in just a paragraph or two the ins and outs of coin collecting, but value is a combination of condition, rarity and market demand. Metal content of coins can also play a role, especially with gold, but there are coins made of copper and/or nickel that can be considerably more valuable than a run-of-the-mill common gold coin.

Some coins are made at several different mints in the same year, with a coin from a certain year being made at one mint being considerably more valuable than the same coin for the same year from another mint. This is normally (but not always) a function of the number made. BTW, NZ did not start making its own coins until 1933, so anything before that will likely be British.

The decision to buy or sell is really up to you. Markets fluctuate, but mostly move upwards over time.

Thanks, but no time to faff about photographing and categorising them. Would prefer to take them somewhere if thats possible.

molly37 - 2015-06-13 20:48:00
6423

This message was deleted.

jym - 2015-06-13 21:40:00
6424
molly37 wrote:

Thanks, but no time to faff about photographing and categorising them. Would prefer to take them somewhere if thats possible.

Fair enough, though it's still important to distinguish between insurance replacement value versus what you might get from a buyer who will likely resell them. Consider the difference between what an insurance company will pay to replace a car, what that car might sell for privately, and what that same vehicle might sell for to a second hand car dealer who will then resell it on his/her lot.

Good luck!

Edited by echoriath at 10:57 pm, Sat 13 Jun

echoriath - 2015-06-13 22:56:00
6425
echoriath wrote:

Fair enough, though it's still important to distinguish between insurance replacement value versus what you might get from a buyer who will likely resell them. Consider the difference between what an insurance company will pay to replace a car, what that car might sell for privately, and what that same vehicle might sell for to a second hand car dealer who will then resell it on his/her lot.

Good luck!

You are a gem, thanks so much.

molly37 - 2015-06-13 23:30:00
6426

This message was deleted.

donaldo - 2015-06-14 14:47:00
6427

Looks like I missed the event bigger than a comet in an eclipse.........

chrisr5 - 2015-06-14 15:26:00
6428
chrisr5 wrote:

Looks like I missed the event bigger than a comet in an eclipse.........

Yes You Did

lester36 - 2015-06-14 15:52:00
6429

look at the answer I got, lol , 901536261

dtpapa - 2015-06-14 23:08:00
6430
dtpapa wrote:

look at the answer I got, lol , 901536261

photos are ok view them here it shows a better image when you click on it

https://www.bidbud.co.nz/901536261

mudeki - 2015-06-15 00:14:00
6431
mudeki wrote:

photos are ok view them here it shows a better image when you click on it

https://www.bidbud.co.nz/901536261

they're the same photos. The photos are not ok, You cannot judge grade from the photos. You cannot judge cleaning or polishing from the photos. The photos are not good enough. End of story!!

Edited by dtpapa at 8:31 am, Mon 15 Jun

dtpapa - 2015-06-15 08:30:00
6432

I think there is enough for you to go on. The seller has already commented that they look lightly polished so there is some risk involved but he also offers a money back guarantee. If anything it is the seller that misses out if they are better that what can be seen in his photos. You could always contact him directly anyway he is listed as a member of the NZ Numismatic dealers association and has contact info in the coin catalogue.

mudeki - 2015-06-15 18:15:00
6433

This message was deleted.

donaldo - 2015-06-16 12:00:00
6434

It could be argued that polished is polished, just as pregnant is pregnant. There's no "kinda, sorta" about it. Still, no matter. They are described as possibly lightly polished, and 1. Even with those photos, they look it and 2. It should probably come as no great shock given their age and the tendency for people to want their silver shiny.

As numismatists, we may not like it, but not everyone is a numismatist, and some of the same clean their coins because they like them shiny as well.

echoriath - 2015-06-16 12:18:00
6435

This message was deleted.

muzz8 - 2015-06-16 16:32:00
6436
muzz8 wrote:

had first anzac coin come thru my warehouse till yesterday- so first time have seen them with genuine useage--coin still appears pristine perhaps XF+ and black portion all intact
maybe just going to take a while to trickle down

Or until the children find where Mum and Dad have put them away

gammoner - 2015-06-16 18:23:00
6437
echoriath wrote:

It could be argued that polished is polished, just as pregnant is pregnant. There's no "kinda, sorta" about it. Still, no matter. They are described as possibly lightly polished, and 1. Even with those photos, they look it and 2. It should probably come as no great shock given their age and the tendency for people to want their silver shiny.

As numismatists, we may not like it, but not everyone is a numismatist, and some of the same clean their coins because they like them shiny as well.

what exactly is it that you think makes them "look cleaned"

dtpapa - 2015-06-16 20:03:00
6438

This message was deleted.

muzz8 - 2015-06-16 20:23:00
6439
muzz8 wrote:

maybe- they were kids haha

Yes. There are some real children in here.

doggitt - 2015-06-16 20:33:00
6440
dtpapa wrote:

what exactly is it that you think makes them "look cleaned"

Just from the photos, which, by the way, are not that hot, the coins catch the light in a certain way. I don't know how best to put it, but there's an unwholesome luminescence about them. Also, I think, as Martin mentioned, in amongst the lettering does not generally come totally clean.

echoriath - 2015-06-16 20:50:00
6441

A further thought on the grading issue:
Strength of strike will also play rather a key role, especially in coins made of nickel since it is a metal that is notorious for flowing badly. Add in new designs, worn/modified dies and a subjective eye, and the same coin might get three different grades, especially at the top end.

echoriath - 2015-06-16 20:59:00
6442

This message was deleted.

muzz8 - 2015-06-17 12:31:00
6443

This message was deleted.

muzz8 - 2015-06-17 17:10:00
6444
muzz8 wrote:

any one notice anything wrong with this listing 902940081

Do you think 3 coins with both of them collector quality would be the correct answer.

lester36 - 2015-06-17 17:37:00
6445

The member deleted this message.

muzz8 - 2015-06-17 18:31:00
6446

all three coins have broken wings [type1] they are not [type 2] broken wings..
check the photo again muzz.

chefman1 - 2015-06-17 19:14:00
6447

The member deleted this message.

muzz8 - 2015-06-17 19:54:00
6448

lol...if you read the auction details it does say three coins..and the photo shows three coins..so whats the problem then.

just because its says [both] are collectors quality coins = who cares
have you got any other problem tonite muzz ..you sound like numnuts about cleaning coins

chefman1 - 2015-06-17 20:22:00
6449

Time to take this ...

translateltd - 2015-06-18 09:35:00
6450

... over the page ...

translateltd - 2015-06-18 09:35:00
Free Web Hosting