gazzat22 wrote:

Going on news reports the surge in prices for houses has been for existing houses NOT new builds.For those who bought houses and were able to claim the interest on their loans its the End of the Golden Weather at other taxpayers expense.

Weird to call it that when every other business can claim loan interest as tax deductible. Rental housing is now out of kilter with other businesses.

Edited by loose.unit8 at 2:51 pm, Tue 6 Apr

loose.unit8 - 2021-04-06 14:50:00

mansonprincess wrote:

so what would you all suggest, I have been letting the rental pay for itself, just breaking even, sometimes a minor loss - would you consider putting your own money into it to get the mortgage down?

Is there room to raise the rent? You can increase it to whatever you like, but carefully collect evidence so you can tell the Tenancy Tribunal, if asked, that the new rent is not substantially more than market rent.

artemis - 2021-04-06 15:09:00

mansonprincess wrote:

so what would you all suggest, I have been letting the rental pay for itself, just breaking even, sometimes a minor loss - would you consider putting your own money into it to get the mortgage down?

if it cost $100 in tax then you’ll need to increase the rent by a bit more than that. Start doing that over the next four years. No doubt other costs like rates and insurance will also be going up quite a lot. You won’t see a cent of it. It’s all going on the new tax. Suggest the tenant writes to Jacinda to say thanks.

pcle - 2021-04-06 17:03:00

masturbidder wrote:

At that time some of us bought old houses (at 20% interest) and did them up, while others spent their dough on cars, booze and loose women. Why do they expect us to share the results of our hard work?

you could say the same about any other tax..

Edited by thornton1961 at 9:05 pm, Tue 6 Apr

thornton1961 - 2021-04-06 21:02:00

i could raise the rent but i have family in there so was just wondering whether i should put extra - my own money into it and try get it paid down now as quickly as possible - this whole thing is so annoying

mansonprincess - 2021-04-07 12:40:00

mansonprincess wrote:

i could raise the rent but i have family in there so was just wondering whether i should put extra - my own money into it and try get it paid down now as quickly as possible - this whole thing is so annoying

If you have money ???? in the bank earning nothing then park it on the mortgage or find a better earner for it

toyboy3 - 2021-04-07 12:57:00

Exactly. There is a family in our rental house, so don't want to raise the rent either.

tygertung - 2021-04-07 15:54:00

mansonprincess wrote:

i could raise the rent but i have family in there so was just wondering whether i should put extra - my own money into it and try get it paid down now as quickly as possible - this whole thing is so annoying

I guess you have to work out if you afford to contribute towards paying the mortgage faster, and set aside extra money for the additional tax you will need to pay each year. If you can afford to do that, then its an option. If you can't afford both, then it's back to the drawing board.

I'm in the same situation with two rentals (one with a mortgage, and the other mortgage free). Think I'll just sell the mortgage free one and get some play money, and save the stress. Shame for the tenant though.

sam447 - 2021-04-07 17:18:00

This message was deleted.

kittycatkin - 2021-04-07 19:34:00

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/terminally-i
ll-woman-winz-families-asked-to-vacate-homes-by-hamilton-lan
dlord-after-government-crackdown-on-property-investors.html

From the landlord:

"I'm not working a full-time job just to pay tax - I'm sorry," Goodwin told Newshub.”

Well that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

lakeview3 - 2021-04-07 22:27:00

lakeview3 wrote:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/202
1/04/terminally-ill-woman-winz-families-asked-to-vacate-home
s-by-hamilton-landlord-after-government-crackdown-on-propert
y-investors.html

From the landlord:

"I'm not working a full-time job just to pay tax - I'm sorry," Goodwin told Newshub.”

Well that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

The government has signalled a policy change that will likely have the most vulnerable without a place to live- and the government has no plan in place to help these people. Government incompetence....that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

apollo11 - 2021-04-07 22:39:00

apollo11 wrote:

The government has signalled a policy change that will likely have the most vulnerable without a place to live- and the government has no plan in place to help these people. Government incompetence....that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

well there has to be some pain I guess. These people will need to be helped by family or go into emergency accommodation. It was always going to end like this. Should have been done years ago. Anyway if something doesn’t change then the govt will have no choice but to asset and income test pensions, or tax empty houses and air bnbs. We can’t have 5% of the population owning all the houses and still expecting a pension as well.

lakeview3 - 2021-04-07 22:45:00

Anyway i am off to bed.....????

lakeview3 - 2021-04-07 22:46:00

lakeview3 wrote:

We can’t have 5% of the population owning all the houses and still expecting a pension as well.

I'd be keen to see a link to where you got this data from.
What do we do about the slobs who never worked a day in their life, lived on benefits and still get to draw a pension?

apollo11 - 2021-04-07 22:48:00

apollo11 wrote:

I'd be keen to see a link to where you got this data from.
What do we do about the slobs who never worked a day in their life, lived on benefits and still get to draw a pension?

i agree what do we do about them?

My idea would be to tell people that the law was changing, that no pension will be payable to anyone unless they have worked at least 20-25 years in New Zealand. That will stop the place from becoming a retirement home for foreigners and give a message to New Zealand born people they either contribute to this country or get nothing. Extreme? How much empathy do we have to have towards people who think others should work to fund their lifestyle? As I have said before I have a relative who has never worked. They are now ‘retired’. I have no idea how they have managed to do this over the years I honestly don’t and yes it makes me angry.

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 06:13:00

apollo11 wrote:

I'd be keen to see a link to where you got this data from.

Guess we'll never know....

sparkychap - 2021-04-08 06:37:00

sparkychap wrote:

Guess we'll never know....

I read an article yesterday, can’t seem to find it now, but yes no one seems to know exactly which in itself is a problem isn’t it? Will see if I can find it.....

Maybe it’s time for a landlord register?

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 06:43:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I read an article yesterday, can’t seem to find it now, but yes no one seems to know exactly which in itself is a problem isn’t it? Will see if I can find it.....

Maybe it’s time for a landlord register?

1: we'll wait - can't be too hard to find...at least it wasn't for me.

2: effectively there is, when landlords lodge bonds with MBIE

3: the answer in #2 is a hint to finding the data in #1.

sparkychap - 2021-04-08 06:50:00

sparkychap wrote:

1: we'll wait - can't be too hard to find...at least it wasn't for me.

2: effectively there is, when landlords lodge bonds with MBIE

3: the answer in #2 is a hint to finding the data in #1.

this might be it

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability
/300266682/housing-policy-changes-fact-checking-the-investor
s-claims

I think it says in there that not all bonds are lodged so it’s not an accurate way of interpreting data. So yeah, maybe there should be a register. Then bonds can be properly tracked and landlords centrally linked to the properties they own.

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 07:09:00

lakeview3 wrote:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/202
1/04/terminally-ill-woman-winz-families-asked-to-vacate-home
s-by-hamilton-landlord-after-government-crackdown-on-propert
y-investors.html

From the landlord:

"I'm not working a full-time job just to pay tax - I'm sorry," Goodwin told Newshub.”

Well that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

I would do exactly the same as her, Do you contribute $20K to other peoples rent a year? Because that's what it amounts to for her.

heather902 - 2021-04-08 07:53:00

heather902 wrote:

I would do exactly the same as her, Do you contribute $20K to other peoples rent a year? Because that's what it amounts to for her.

contribute to other people’s rent?

Oh dear!

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 08:01:00

lakeview3 wrote:

i agree what do we do about them?

My idea would be to tell people that the law was changing, that no pension will be payable to anyone unless they have worked at least 20-25 years in New Zealand.

Do you foresee any unintended consequences with your idea?

Government is the reason for this mess, it's pointless thinking they are the magic wand to fix it. The only magic government can do is make piles of money vanish into thin air.
All government have to do to fix this is restrict immigration from now on. The housing issue will sort itself out through a steady supply of new houses.

apollo11 - 2021-04-08 08:08:00

lakeview3 wrote:

this might be it

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability
/300266682/housing-policy-changes-fact-checking-the-investor
s-claims

I think it says in there that not all bonds are lodged so it’s not an accurate way of interpreting data. So yeah, maybe there should be a register. Then bonds can be properly tracked and landlords centrally linked to the properties they own.

I don’t think that’s the right article as it doesn’t say anything about 5% owning all the houses.

sparkychap - 2021-04-08 08:17:00

lakeview3 wrote:

contribute to other people’s rent?

Oh dear!

No no you don't, so don't go criticizing people for selling properties they cannot afford, they are doing the rtight thing.

heather902 - 2021-04-08 08:18:00

heather902 wrote:

No no you don't, so don't go criticizing people for selling properties they cannot afford, they are doing the rtight thing.

I am not criticising her for selling them. I am questioning her motives in keeping them as she has done. But then, she tells us why she did keep them when they were no longer required by her, doesn’t she?

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 08:25:00

lakeview3 wrote:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/202
1/04/terminally-ill-woman-winz-families-asked-to-vacate-home
s-by-hamilton-landlord-after-government-crackdown-on-propert
y-investors.html

From the landlord:

"I'm not working a full-time job just to pay tax - I'm sorry," Goodwin told Newshub.”

Well that just sums up the whole situation in New Zealand leading up the this housing crisis doesn’t it?

LOL, lv, only half the story.
She bought into multiple houses as a HELP to her family.
Once no longer used by them, instead of selling, she kept them and has rented to disadvantaged tenants at low rent.

A classic private LL doing Govt's work.

smallwoods - 2021-04-08 08:59:00

smallwoods wrote:

LOL, lv, only half the story.
She bought into multiple houses as a HELP to her family.
Once no longer used by them, instead of selling, she kept them and has rented to disadvantaged tenants at low rent.

A classic private LL doing Govt's work.

To be fair to those with a short attention span it was a long story...
I timed how long it took me to read all of it. 5:07.51

lovelurking - 2021-04-08 09:40:00

smallwoods wrote:

LOL, lv, only half the story.
She bought into multiple houses as a HELP to her family.
Once no longer used by them, instead of selling, she kept them and has rented to disadvantaged tenants at low rent.

A classic private LL doing Govt's work.

see my comment at 525.

lakeview3 - 2021-04-08 09:41:00

lakeview3 wrote:

see my comment at 525.

Did you read the article? Do you disagree with smallwood's post 526?

pico42 - 2021-04-08 09:58:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I am not criticising her for selling them. I am questioning her motives in keeping them as she has done. But then, she tells us why she did keep them when they were no longer required by her, doesn’t she?

I'm unclear how that is relevant?

heather902 - 2021-04-08 10:06:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I read an article yesterday, can’t seem to find it now, but yes no one seems to know exactly which in itself is a problem isn’t it? Will see if I can find it.....

Maybe it’s time for a landlord register?

It is time for a tenant register, a tenant levy would pay the costs of running it. They would be graded according to past performance including rent payment reliability and LL feedback. A government guarantee (again funded by the tenant levy) would cover damage and losses, to take the risks off rental owners.

masturbidder - 2021-04-08 10:33:00

lakeview3 wrote:

see my comment at 525.

Perhaps this rule change will get rid of this kind of amateur landlord, keen to look after her tenants and provide them a house to live in at below market rents. Don't worry, the hard nosed business oriented landlords will take up the slack. They are in it for the profit, not the feelings.

apollo11 - 2021-04-08 11:04:00

lakeview3 wrote:

this might be it

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability
/300266682/housing-policy-changes-fact-checking-the-investor
s-claims

I think it says ifn there that not all bonds are lodged so it’s not an accurate way of interpreting data. So yeah, maybe there should be a register. Then bonds can be properly tracked and landlords centrally linked to the properties they own.

Pretty sure that if you take a bond, you legally have to lodge it with mbie, and I doubt there are any landlords who don't taka a bond. No bond means no comeback for tenant damage , so a no bond tenancy would be very rare.

geoff_m - 2021-04-09 06:38:00

geoff_m wrote:

Pretty sure that if you take a bond, you legally have to lodge it with mbie, and I doubt there are any landlords who don't taka a bond. No bond means no comeback for tenant damage , so a no bond tenancy would be very rare.

not sure how it works, but apparently some landlords lodge multiple bonds at the same time, or yes some not at all. Hence the need to look at the system.

Of course there should be a landlord register. If people want to have a tenant one then fine although that benefits the landlord more so maybe they can set it up (actually I thought they already had).

lakeview3 - 2021-04-09 07:00:00

apollo11 wrote:

Perhaps this rule change will get rid of this kind of amateur landlord, keen to look after her tenants and provide them a house to live in at below market rents. Don't worry, the hard nosed business oriented landlords will take up the slack. They are in it for the profit, not the feelings.

I dare say all are in for the profit, not the feelings, not matter what they say, and that’s the issue reslly isn’t it?

lakeview3 - 2021-04-09 07:01:00

lakeview3 wrote:

not sure how it works, but apparently some landlords lodge multiple bonds at the same time, or yes some not at all. Hence the need to look at the system.

There is no need to look at the system.

yes some landlords don't take bond - whanau tenancies and service tenancies are one large area where bonds aren't generally taken.

And bonds "being lodged at the same time" makes no difference, they're still separate bonds.

Having said that, there is some merit in a landlord register in order to manage some form of licence / training process where landlords have to pass an online test (not a particularly hard one) but one that proves they've at least made a vague attempt at reading the legislation that governs their "profession".

But in reality the costs of creation, management and enforcement are high and I pretty sure the guvmint have better things to do.

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 07:48:00

sparkychap wrote:

There is no need to look at the system.

yes some landlords don't take bond - whanau tenancies and service tenancies are one large area where bonds aren't generally taken.

And bonds "being lodged at the same time" makes no difference, they're still separate bonds.

Having said that, there is some merit in a landlord register in order to manage some form of licence / training process where landlords have to pass an online test (not a particularly hard one) but one that proves they've at least made a vague attempt at reading the legislation that governs their "profession".

But in reality the costs of creation, management and enforcement are high and I pretty sure the guvmint have better things to do.

good post sparkychap.

I think there is merit in setting one up too, especially when there are now standards and obligations etc to be met. If people are good landlords then they would probably support the idea also. I mean who knows, I may even be a landlord one day myself and would have no issues whatsoever with this centralised kind of database.

lakeview3 - 2021-04-09 08:35:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I dare say all are in for the profit, not the feelings, not matter what they say, and that’s the issue reslly isn’t it?

No it's not. The issue is rapid property price rises- caused by woeful government policies and actions.

apollo11 - 2021-04-09 08:49:00

Government spending almost $1 billion every three months on housing support
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/government-spend
ing-almost-1-billion-every-three-months-housing-support

Insane. Socialism fails again.

pcle - 2021-04-09 08:50:00

apollo11 wrote:

No it's not. The issue is rapid property price rises- caused by woeful government policies and actions.

But that's a good thing, isn't it? We're all gazillionaires!

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 08:56:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I dare say all are in for the profit, not the feelings, not matter what they say, and that’s the issue reslly isn’t it?

I'm a landlord of two properties, and I'm not in it for profit. The property I think I'll sell now was the flat I inherited when my Dad died a few years ago. I was far too emotionally attached to it because it was his home and where we sat with him as he died. Refreshed/updated the property and rented it to an older gentleman who isn't in the position to buy (quiet bachelor, like my Dad). Charged lower rent and haven't felt the need to increase rent because he keeps the property immaculate, never misses rent (even I lockdown), etc.

The other rental I will have to keep is the townhouse I bought a couple of years ago for my son (21yo) and his partner and 2yo son to rent, as it was hard to find a place and I wanted my grandchild to have stable life. It has the mortgage but the rent from son (pays market rent) and Dad's flat helps cover that, rates, insurance and repairs and maintenance. Any 'excess' income is put back into the properties in the way of replacing windows one at a time with double glazing when enough money accumulates, etc to make the homes healthier and more comfortable. It's certainly doesn't go into my pocket.

I have no issues with the brightline test, and paying tax on profit made at sale. It's inability to deduct interest that will be crippling and will force my hand. I am one of those amateur emotional landlords, that is going to have to become ruthless and look after number one for a change.

Edited by sam447 at 8:59 am, Fri 9 Apr

sam447 - 2021-04-09 08:57:00

funkydunky wrote:

Who complained when they cut interest rates in half 5 times since the GFC?

Savers.
Mustn't encourage saving - borrowing good.

yennik - 2021-04-09 09:09:00

sparkychap wrote:

But that's a good thing, isn't it? We're all gazillionaires!

Perhaps houses are only holding their value, it's the money that's becoming worthless.

apollo11 - 2021-04-09 09:09:00

apollo11 wrote:

Perhaps houses are only holding their value, it's the money that's becoming worthless.

We should just burn all the money and buy bitcoin instead.

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 09:34:00

pcle wrote:

Government spending almost $1 billion every three months on housing support
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/government-spend
ing-almost-1-billion-every-three-months-housing-support

Insane. Socialism fails again.

Think they mean taxpayers.

artemis - 2021-04-09 09:40:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I dare say all are in for the profit, not the feelings, not matter what they say, and that’s the issue reslly isn’t it?

my friend is the same as sam447

they bought a house to live in then Kaikoura earthquake happened before they could sell the old one leaving them issues with EQC in the old house.

long story short about a new colleague moving from overseas and unwell baby and suddenly new house was rented out very cheaply to work colleague (now bought her own house.)

house then rented to another friend while she reno'd her own house

first friend has just been round discussing what to do......

rent was $500 a week for a desirable inner Wellington family friendly suburb, I don't think there has been a house in the same suburb for under $1,000 a week on TM for months.

If she re-rents it she was talking about $900 a week so she can choose her tenants while we were talking she had what was her third text from a 'friend of a friend' looking for somewhere to live!

And yup friends own house is a falling down dump (not trying to be rude) the rented one is way better......

FWIW the opinion of the others at coffee was put it on air bnb!!!

I agree with the OP everyone is screwed :)

magicroundbout - 2021-04-09 12:38:00

@magicrounbdabout - profits don't just come from rent. The value of that property will have almost doubled since 2015 (the year before Kaikoura).

Plenty of people rent below market value to friends, colleagues etc, but do so because they can see the prize of realised gain down the track. And tax free, too.

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 12:46:00

I suspect there is already a register of landlords. We have a landlord number. We also have a WINZ supplier number which is different. I think the way bonds are set up is that properties have a number, each tenancy bond is then recorded as the end number. eg. 1 Smith Street bond number: 6795432-011. The 011 bit is the 11th bond for that address.

Of course I might be wrong but that’s the way I’ve noticed things are recorded on bond registration/refund forms and also anything TT related.

princess52 - 2021-04-09 13:49:00

sparkychap wrote:

@magicrounbd-
about - profits don't just come from rent. The value of that property will have almost doubled since 2015 (the year before Kaikoura).

Plenty of people rent below market value to friends, colleagues etc, but do so because they can see the prize of realised gain down the track. And tax free, too.

Yup but of course that money is 'virtual' at the moment, she can't eat it or pay tax with it or use it to put in insulation and a heat pump.

It was just another example of how there are landlords who are in the position they are in not by design (not saying she's not done well) but she didn't buy a house to rent it out awaiting capital gain. It was just another example, it also points out how rents have risen, she rented to a couple of friends so it was cheap but some of these cheap places WILL go with all these changes.

My preferred option is for prices to fall, very unproductive use of money high house prices.
If they want to take investors out of buying houses just do it and let the prices come down.

magicroundbout - 2021-04-09 14:32:00

Yes, I agree its unrealised gain, but in theory, she *could* withdraw some equity to pay of those things, or extend the term to reduce her payments in order to maximise her capital gain. Of course we don't know the full status of her finances, but what I'm suggesting is that there may be people panicing and threatening to sell, when refinancing and holding could be the better financial option, especially if she doesn't want to get rid of those tenants.

Edited by sparkychap at 2:42 pm, Fri 9 Apr

sparkychap - 2021-04-09 14:42:00