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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 16:27:00

Another porky told, it wasn't and hasn't been sorted out, as you spat the dummy, keep squawking and attacking my integrity and expertise to everyone, including my father. So if other members of this forum have just come on board, have a look at four lots I am selling that came from the collection in question, and also comments from previous page. Apparently muzz8 said that two USA Dealers said the pencil markings were Dealer identification marks, and that "I didn't know what I was talking about ....". And who are the three highly regarded NZ Dealers by the way, be brave and name them - hopefully they will have a look at the four Falkland Is Dependency and South Georgia lots I've posted for sale, and see what I saw, pencil marks and toning, that have clearly damaged UHM stamps.

loision - 2013-05-01 16:53:00

muzz8 wrote:

yeah yeah yeah!!!this is also the opinion of 3 highly regarded nz dealers,and we sorted this out 2 years ago

That's from the technical angle, but there is another angle worthy of consideration. What is expedient considering everything.
Some buyers might search MUH and see something they were looking for and click to buy without reading the fine print. This does happen from time to time. A seller might want to avoid this by not including MUH in the title, which they are quite entitled to exclude. It saves a lot of bother in such a situation. If a seller doesn't feel comfortable to advertise MUH, I think that needs to be respected.

carzx - 2013-05-01 17:37:00

I don't like the way some dealers put pencil marks on all their stamps. It devalues them somewhat IMO.

carzx - 2013-05-01 17:39:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 17:44:00

muzz8 wrote:

hope the coin cartel guys are enjoying this-coffee and timtams anyone

Would you believe I had a full pack of Tim Tams halfway through the previous page? I'm off to the pantry for more! I know things are getting interesting when people start quoting scripture. Matthew 7:1 is another good obey to bandy about.

echoriath - 2013-05-01 17:53:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 17:53:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 17:59:00

muzz8 wrote:

accepted method of i.d in Europe and USA according to USA dealers-only on varieties or flaws though-almost like a guarantee I guess
shows some expert has done the research,and makes reselling better
It is like buying a item with a certificate-actually improves value-and the last thing you would want to do is try to rub it out- plain dumb
Imagine buying a Auckland Exhibition set and than throwing the Certificate away-dddddddduuuuuuurrrrr

I got the impression it was fairly standard. It doesn't help when they put the wrong number on some though.

carzx - 2013-05-01 17:59:00

An interesting Aussie KGV perfin - 587295144 being described as Unique and Rare - can someone throw some light on this one ?

Okay - seller has seen 'stamps with the o.s or n.s.w perfins have sold for $1000-$1500' but then there may be commercial perfin useage or the old favourite trick here in NZ with perfins coming off old Legal Docs and into collections .. ;-)

Edited by tmg at 6:08 pm, Wed 1 May

tmg - 2013-05-01 18:06:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 18:07:00

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tmg - 2013-05-01 18:13:00

echoriath wrote:

Would you believe I had a full pack of Tim Tams halfway through the previous page? I'm off to the pantry for more! I know things are getting interesting when people start quoting scripture. Matthew 7:1 is another good one to bandy about.

Stupid oversensitive tablet keys/predictive text.

echoriath - 2013-05-01 18:32:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 19:00:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 19:03:00

muzz8 wrote:

Just come back from Europe trip- the dealers actually charge you for identifying a variety and placing i.d on reverse

I don't imagine they would work for free.
But what about a number on a little bit of paper with the stamp? That's what I do, then photograph them all for future reference. Beats defacing the stamp.

carzx - 2013-05-01 19:12:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-01 19:21:00

muzz8 wrote:

i guess because it can be seperated- or so that you cannot rub it out,(why would you)or change number of referance
we are talking about lightly on the gum on a MNH/UHM stamp-not the face (defacing)

Deface -
1. to mar the surface or appearance of; disfigure: to deface a wall by writing on it.
2.
to efface, obliterate, or injure the surface of, as to make illegible or invalid: to deface a bond.

It defaces the back of the stamp.
As I already said, sometimes they put the wrong number on it, which makes it look funny when selling it as the real cat #.
As for MNH stamps, that's sacrilege. I wouldn't do it for any amount of convenience.

carzx - 2013-05-01 19:31:00

muzz8 wrote:

i guess because it can be seperated- or so that you cannot rub it out,(why would you)or change number of referance
we are talking about lightly on the gum on a MNH/UHM stamp-not the face (defacing)

Horrible nasty things ,I have had many used / mint stamps with 2 or more of these so called Expertising marks on them, looks like a disturbed child has had a go at them with a stamping kit ,but anyone can make a rubber stamp.I would prefer a certificate from an accredited organization at least they don't alter or disfigure the stamp in the process .

Edited by rebel58 at 7:37 pm, Wed 1 May

rebel58 - 2013-05-01 19:36:00

carzx wrote:

Interesting.
Which GB stamps are likely to loose ink when soaked?

Generally speaking all the recess stamps are okay. it is the surface printed stamps you have to watch.
Particularly the 1883-84 Lilac and dull green series. Both of these colours will wash out. Gibbons have a footnote "The prices are for stamps in the true dull green colour. Stamps which have been soaked, causing the colour to run are virtually worthless". This is also true for the 1887 Jubilee series and the Edward V11 series of 1901. Any in Green and/or purple are especially ones to be careful about.
For those members of our notice board who are also members of the Stamp Collectors Club in Christchurch they will remember some nice colour changelings i displayed at our club meeting on Wednesday 24th of April from the New Zealand 1981 government life set. In that instance the remarkable colour changes were caused by exposure to sunlight and resulted in some remarkable changed colours. For collectors with some spare 1981 Govt Life stamps leave the 20c, 30c and 50c on your window ledge for a few days (in sunny weather) and see what happens. The 30c will turn bright green!

kiwisteven - 2013-05-02 00:45:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 05:22:00

kiwisteven wrote:

Generally speaking all the recess stamps are okay. it is the surface printed stamps you have to watch.
Particularly the 1883-84 Lilac and dull green series. Both of these colours will wash out. Gibbons have a footnote "The prices are for stamps in the true dull green colour. Stamps which have been soaked, causing the colour to run are virtually worthless". This is also true for the 1887 Jubilee series and the Edward V11 series of 1901. Any in Green and/or purple are especially ones to be careful about.
For those members of our notice board who are also members of the Stamp Collectors Club in Christchurch they will remember some nice colour changelings i displayed at our club meeting on Wednesday 24th of April from the New Zealand 1981 government life set. In that instance the remarkable colour changes were caused by exposure to sunlight and resulted in some remarkable changed colours. For collectors with some spare 1981 Govt Life stamps leave the 20c, 30c and 50c on your window ledge for a few days (in sunny weather) and see what happens. The 30c will turn bright green!

ahhh.... that explains a few things. Cheers.

carzx - 2013-05-02 08:04:00

The Christchurch Stamp & Postcard Fair will be on this Saturday at the Philatelic Centre, 67 Mandeville St in Riccarton. Come and meet your favorite Trademe sellers or buyers 9am to noon.

rebel58 - 2013-05-02 09:57:00

kiwisteven wrote:

Generally speaking all the recess stamps are okay. it is the surface printed stamps you have to watch.
Particularly the 1883-84 Lilac and dull green series. Both of these colours will wash out. Gibbons have a footnote "The prices are for stamps in the true dull green colour. Stamps which have been soaked, causing the colour to run are virtually worthless". This is also true for the 1887 Jubilee series and the Edward V11 series of 1901. Any in Green and/or purple are especially ones to be careful about.
For those members of our notice board who are also members of the Stamp Collectors Club in Christchurch they will remember some nice colour changelings i displayed at our club meeting on Wednesday 24th of April from the New Zealand 1981 government life set. In that instance the remarkable colour changes were caused by exposure to sunlight and resulted in some remarkable changed colours. For collectors with some spare 1981 Govt Life stamps leave the 20c, 30c and 50c on your window ledge for a few days (in sunny weather) and see what happens. The 30c will turn bright green!

Thanks for that, was about to list some as possible variations or faults.....now I know not to :) may still list them, but atleast I can describe them in a better manner. Before anyone jumps on me too....I would have said "possible" variations or faults. When I dont know, I try and be clear as I can. example, I am currently selling soem hinged mint, but some idiot in the past used the edges of sheets as hinges, This has caused issues trying to remove the "hinge" and damage. I have tried to ensure a buyer is fully aware of this issue at time of purchase. dear I say - space fillers LOL.

bca - 2013-05-02 11:48:00

bca wrote:

Thanks for that, was about to list some as possible variations or faults.....now I know not to :) may still list them, but atleast I can describe them in a better manner. Before anyone jumps on me too....I would have said "possible" variations or faults. When I dont know, I try and be clear as I can. example, I am currently selling soem hinged mint, but some idiot in the past used the edges of sheets as hinges, This has caused issues trying to remove the "hinge" and damage. I have tried to ensure a buyer is fully aware of this issue at time of purchase. dear I say - space fillers LOL.

oh, and thats only two of my listings - the heading even says "read decrip" to help warn / inform a buyer.

bca - 2013-05-02 11:50:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 12:30:00

Wow!
Years of to-pally didly Squat and was to be
a nice forum?
I Have parkinsons and pancreatic whatever the hell
they tell me.
But i will beat it!!
Enyoy your lives and stop brow beating
when you should be looking after one and other!
I Am off now.
Kindest regards To you all

william1091 - 2013-05-02 15:50:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 18:16:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 18:23:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 18:25:00

muzz8 wrote:

update- those 4 falkland lots have improved there reserve by 100% overnight- good profit margin even by a dealer!!! strange thing is that trademe allows you to have on watchlist even though i cannt bid
I was going to get someone else to bid on them when they were $5 each-but thought that would break trademe guidelines- so restrained myself !!! hic

They don't give the bad news unless it's absolutely necessary. eBay does the same.

carzx - 2013-05-02 19:01:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 19:05:00

I can just imagine if you could go to "My Trademe" - "traders who have blacklisted you".

carzx - 2013-05-02 19:33:00

Hi there people.
Foxing, I have some of my british george head stamps and they are all nocely set out in a acid free lighthouse album. when i went to change them there is a slight brown tinge around the edge where the stamp was in the pocket. the early penny blacks and imperf stuff are still good. I have bought a new album in a slip case in TM. what should i do. I dont really want to change any stamps that even have a hint of foxing or brown stuff around the edges of where the stamp was into the new album. any suggestions? thanks. Also my postal history album has some foxing and im going to get rid of the ones with foxing on them.

moahunt - 2013-05-02 19:49:00

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muzz8 - 2013-05-02 20:00:00

muzz8 wrote:

are they fine used (FU) or Mint( still with gum)

they are fine used. some of the ones have leftover gum on them they are the bad condition ones.

moahunt - 2013-05-02 21:34:00

moahunt wrote:

Hi there people.
Foxing, I have some of my british george head stamps and they are all nocely set out in a acid free lighthouse album. when i went to change them there is a slight brown tinge around the edge where the stamp was in the pocket. the early penny blacks and imperf stuff are still good. I have bought a new album in a slip case in TM. what should i do. I don't really want to change any stamps that even have a hint of foxing or brown stuff around the edges of where the stamp was into the new album. any suggestions? thanks. Also my postal history album has some foxing and im going to get rid of the ones with foxing on them.

If they are mint you are going to have to sacrifice the gum buy using this method ,desert bowl 3/4 full of cold water and one to two table spoons of plain bleach, mix.Apply stamps to water, soak up to three minutes watch like a hawk,as soon as foxing is gone place stamp in bowl of clean water,leave to soak and stop bleaching process for a minute or two.Dry stamp.The end.
Caution !!!!!! Test on old rubbish stamps first,adjust solution to suit your needs ,Surface printed stamps don't like this very much and left for to long and the print will float off .
On the other hand I have left FFQ's in a stronger solution for hours(got sidetracked and forgot the things) and they came out just fine.

rebel58 - 2013-05-02 21:34:00

moahunt wrote:

Hi there people.
Foxing, I have some of my british george head stamps and they are all nicely set out in a acid free lighthouse album. when i went to change them there is a slight brown tinge around the edge where the stamp was in the pocket. the early penny blacks and imperf stuff are still good. I have bought a new album in a slip case in TM. what should i do. I dont really want to change any stamps that even have a hint of foxing or brown stuff around the edges of where the stamp was into the new album. any suggestions? thanks. Also my postal history album has some foxing and im going to get rid of the ones with foxing on them.

Firstly you need to address the basic problem of why they have foxing and what is causing it as there is no point trying to get rid of it if your storage conditions are not suitable.
Mint stamps when properly stored in a good quality European brand stockbook should be fine. don't store good stamps in Chinese brand stockbook because they are not acid free and also can absorb moisture too easily.
Always stand the stockbooks upright like a book on a bookshelf without too much pressure. A slipcase can be a great addition. Don't store stamps in a bed room especially over winter where the aptmosphere can get damp thru somebody's breathing. Best to store on a bookcase in a warm room (Livingroom) where it will not get damp. never store stamps in a room where somebody smokes. Make sure you turn the pages at least 2 or 3 times each winter to make sure air circulates and regularly check the stamps at the front and back of the stockbooks and at the tops and bottoms of these pages for any problems. If you live in a moist climate then you may have to go to extra efforts to keep moisture out such as using silica Cell in air tight containers. luckily the dryer parts of New Zealand and especially the east coasts are fairly dry climates.
Prevention is always better than cure!

kiwisteven - 2013-05-02 21:50:00

Regarding Toning, foxing, rust etc. Most stamp clubs regularly hold workshops for members about how to care for your stamps and how to avoid these problems. They also hold workshops on how to soak stamps, how to mount them and how to clean them. if you ever get the chance to go to one of these workshop make sure you do as they are invaluable. you also get lots of chances to ask questions and bring along any problem stamps for advice.
I'm sure that we can get Rebel58 to run another workshop for us in Christchurch. If anyone is interested either ask me or Rebel at this weekends Christchurch stamp fair.

kiwisteven - 2013-05-02 21:58:00

BTW there will be a special Stamp fair and displays in Dunedin in September this year to celebrate the Dunedin Philatelic Society Centenary.

It will be held at the COMMUNITY GALLERY, 20 Princes St, Dunedin on Friday, Saturday and Ssunday 27th, 28th and 29th of September. there will also be several other associated events before and afterwards so it looks like Dunedin will be the place to be in late September.

kiwisteven - 2013-05-02 22:03:00

rebel58 wrote:

The Christchurch Stamp & Postcard Fair will be on this Saturday at the Philatelic Centre, 67 Mandeville St in Riccarton. Come and meet your favorite Trademe sellers or buyers 9am to noon.

Should be a good day as there will be nine dealers buying and selling. Come along and meet some of your Trade Me sellers.

twg1935 - 2013-05-03 08:13:00

Thanks Steven, i have been storing them in a plastic drawer laying flat. oops. They have been in lighthouse stockbooks. They still are and they were all nice ones. I have just purchased another lighthouse stockbook from philatelic distributors on here and it has a slip case. I agree prevention is a better idea. The problem is is that it is my postal history collection the lighthouse album itself has rust on it which im not sure if came from stamps or may have just appered there. in regards to my actual stamps MMMMM Im deciding to get rid of alll the stamps from after 1860 as the imperf stuff seems to be in reasonable shape, its mainly the george and liz british stuff that is foxed. and the later aussie stuff its veru strange patterns. My book collection is pretty foxed as well but thats what you get for collecting 19th century signed stuff!

moahunt - 2013-05-03 10:05:00

1957 Health 'FDCs'.
I would be interested in people's opinions on the 1957 Health 'FDCs' which are listed in the 'NZ Pre-decimal Used' section.
These don't appear to be listed in 'Jones'.
Are they genuine or photos put onto an envelope.
There has been a seller from Australia on eBay with a similar-sounding name who has been selling fake covers; I wonder if this is the same guy.

phil.s - 2013-05-03 16:40:00

phil.s wrote:

1957 Health 'FDCs'.
I would be interested in people's opinions on the 1957 Health 'FDCs' which are listed in the 'NZ Pre-decimal Used' section.
These don't appear to be listed in 'Jones'.
Are they genuine or photos put onto an envelope.
There has been a seller from Australia on eBay with a similar-sounding name who has been selling fake covers; I wonder if this is the same guy.

The lots are being listed by Michael Hudson of Sydney Stamp Service in Australia. He also lists similar items on ebay.
The envelopes themselves and the postmarks are all genuine but extra interesting designs have been added to the envelopes in very recent times. This isn't illegal unless a claim has been made that the design was printed at the time of issue/date on postmark. If that is what you want then fine. if its not then don't buy. The main thing is to know what you are looking at so learn all you can on your topic and become well informed.

kiwisteven - 2013-05-03 17:17:00

What's the current going rate for a QV fiscally used 1d Lilac - with a chunk out of one corner ?

LJ quote $1600 for fine postally used, with no chunks missing

Ta :)

Edited by tmg at 11:20 pm, Fri 3 May

tmg - 2013-05-03 23:15:00

phil.s wrote:

1957 Health 'FDCs'.
I would be interested in people's opinions on the 1957 Health 'FDCs' which are listed in the 'NZ Pre-decimal Used' section.
These don't appear to be listed in 'Jones'.
Are they genuine or photos put onto an envelope.
There has been a seller from Australia on eBay with a similar-sounding name who has been selling fake covers; I wonder if this is the same guy.
Hi Phil
This dealer has had his health lots taken of trademe for doing the same thing with his added designs in 2006 or 2007, also ebay.
A lot of health fdc buyers do not know what this dealer is doing until too late after buying his lots, interesting what deceive, deceiving means.

de·ceive (d-sv)
v. de·ceived, de·ceiv·ing, de·ceives
v.tr.
1. To cause to believe what is not true; mislead.
2. Archaic To catch by guile; ensnare.
v.intr.
1. To practice deceit.
2. To give a false impression: appearances can deceive.

-------------------------------
-------------------------------
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[Middle English deceiven, from Old French deceveir, from Vulgar Latin *dcipre, from Latin dcipere, to ensnare, deceive : d-, de- + capere, to seize; see kap- in Indo-European roots.]

-------------------------------
-------------------------------
--------------------

de·ceiva·ble adj.
de·ceiver n.
de·ceiving·ly adv.
Synonyms: deceive, betray, mislead, beguile, delude, dupe, hoodwink, bamboozle, double-cross
These verbs mean to lead another into error, danger, or a disadvantageous position by underhand means. Deceive involves the deliberate misrepresentation of the truth: "We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know, because they have never deceived us" (Samuel Johnson).
Betray implies treachery: "When you betray somebody else, you also betray yourself" (Isaac Bashevis Singer).
Mislead means to lead in the wrong direction or into error of thought or action: "My manhood, long misled by wandering fires,/Followed false lights" (John Dryden).
Beguile suggests deceiving by means of charm or allure: They beguiled unwary investors with tales of overnight fortunes.
To delude is to mislead the mind or judgment. The government deluded the public about the dangers of low-level radiation.
Dupe implies playing upon another's susceptibilities or naiveté: The shoppers were duped by false advertising.
Hoodwink refers to deluding by trickery: It is difficult to hoodwink a smart lawyer.
Bamboozle means to delude by the use of such tactics as hoaxing or artful persuasion: "Perhaps if I wanted to be understood or to understand I would bamboozle myself into belief, but I am a reporter" (Graham Greene).
Double-cross implies the betrayal of a confidence or the willful breaking of a pledge: The thief double-crossed his accomplice.
Terry Hooper

Edited by terrynz5 at 12:00 am, Sat 4 May

terrynz5 - 2013-05-03 23:47:00

tmg wrote:

What's the current going rate for a QV fiscally used 1d Lilac - with a chunk out of one corner ?

LJ quote $1600 for fine postally used, with no chunks missing

Ta :)[/quote

Basically it is worthless. Postally used and fiscally used are miles apart on this stamp. A fiscally used one in good condition is only worth perhaps $5 so one with a chunk out is without value.
To be a genuine postally used one the postmark has to be readable and the date needs to be correct as to the year this was authorised. Its a bit like comparing a diamond with a piece of broken custom jewelery.

kiwisteven - 2013-05-04 02:03:00

The member deleted this message.

donaldo - 2013-05-04 12:53:00

donaldo wrote:

i have a 1d lilac listed at present which i think is genuine [as purchased in a large old collection]
also i have a 1957 health first day cover listed which has the word "Awatea" printed at bottom left---jones H 57.1D
--i welcome comment on these
as for unhinged mint--and mint --i could write a book on these as back in the 1980's and earlier regumming was done by experts in europe mainly and for about the equivalent of $5 you could have a stamp fully regummed-
it also stands to reason that most stamps collected prior to 1945 were placed in albums with hinges so the likelihood of regummed stamps nowdays of these early issues is likely

a very nice copy of the 1d Lilac it looks to be too Don :-)

kinda makes this lesser example look a bit silly - 588347131

Guess the real question on the latter Lilac is whether they know what they are doing ;-)

tmg - 2013-05-04 13:01:00

588347131 A vulture circling what a shame.Been advised too.Still circling,
waiting, ready to feed.

rebel58 - 2013-05-04 16:17:00