Just curious to know. Not everyone have relatively new properties to rent out. Have folks here having to spend up to add heating, insulation and ventilation. The ones we know have had to do assessments and get the work at least underway for the foreseeable future. Current tenants afaik from the PM doesn't need to be done until sometime next year. New tenants if they move in need to be done a lot sooner.

rayonline_tm - 2021-06-12 12:25:00

No we will look at it next year. No problems, 1 x heat pump will do. Auckland is not very cold, i'm still in shorts. Ventilate is the key.

msigg - 2021-06-12 14:07:00

Yes have spent dollars.
Technically don't have to as our tenants have been there for a long time (and honestly I don't see them moving in the next 3-4 years), but have been making the upgrades anyway.

Much easier to do now than stress about it when tenant moves or the deadline hits, (plus there was the increased 'expense' threshold last year ;) AND I don't think any of the 'upgrades' were unreasonable ... I've not got an issue with the HH requirements.

desi1969 - 2021-06-12 17:52:00

One of my rentals
3.5k for heat pump
1k for ceiling insulation
$600 for moisture barrier
1k for underfloor insulation
and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps. One quote has been 6k
All up for this property-probably around 10-12k
Have another 4 rentals with similar costs.

fxx99 - 2021-06-12 18:33:00

fxx99 wrote:

One of my rentals
3.5k for heat pump
1k for ceiling insulation
$600 for moisture barrier
1k for underfloor insulation
and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps. One quote has been 6k
All up for this property-probably around 10-12k
Have another 4 rentals with similar costs.

Gawd, they must have been freezing to live in!

mazalinas - 2021-06-12 20:21:00

mazalinas wrote:

Gawd, they must have been freezing to live in![/quote

No, just like any other house before HH's came in, never had any complaints and all north facing.

Tell me about the house you live in or rent? I mean if you are renting it, you will be paying for it with rent probably to go up again next year.

Edited by fxx99 at 9:47 am, Sun 13 Jun

fxx99 - 2021-06-13 09:44:00

desi1969 wrote:

Yes have spent dollars.
Technically don't have to as our tenants have been there for a long time (and honestly I don't see them moving in the next 3-4 years), but have been making the upgrades anyway.

Much easier to do now than stress about it when tenant moves or the deadline hits, (plus there was the increased 'expense' threshold last year ;) AND I don't think any of the 'upgrades' were unreasonable ... I've not got an issue with the HH requirements.

Not a rental, but we have been upgrading our crib so that it is better for us when we are there and if we should decide to sell, it will more than meet the healthy home requirements.
It’s worth the expense in my opinion...

lovelurking - 2021-06-13 10:07:00

Do landlords look at as an expense, or an investment which will be returned when the house is old?

Edited by amasser at 10:48 am, Sun 13 Jun

amasser - 2021-06-13 10:48:00

amasser wrote:

Do landlords look at as an expense, or an investment which will be returned when the house is old?

depend if they are whinging about government costs or claiming their tax free capital gain.

sparkychap - 2021-06-13 10:55:00

amasser wrote:

Do landlords look at as an expense, or an investment which will be returned when the house is old?

Did you mean “when the house is old “ or was it meant to read “sold’?
I’m not a landlord, but I reckon it’s both!

lovelurking - 2021-06-13 11:03:00

amasser wrote:

Do landlords look at as an expense, or an investment which will be returned when the house is old?

Do tenants look at the rent increases as an expense or well worth it for the improvements? Most won't use the extractor fans. Hardly touch the heat pump. But the insulation sure is good. And all that new tax they have to pay sure is fair.

pcle - 2021-06-13 11:19:00

i recommend to make things as automated as much as possible.
bathroom fan that automatically turn on, either when turning lights on or via motion or moisture sensors. fit "landlord" ventilation systems so tenants can't play with the controls.

things like actually using heating, thats a tricky one because its so well ingrained into our culture not to use electrical heating.
kiwis are 40+ years behind the ball game, its going to take a bit for the culture to change and for us to catch up.

tweake - 2021-06-13 11:34:00

fxx99 wrote:

One of my rentals
3.5k for heat pump
1k for ceiling insulation
$600 for moisture barrier
1k for underfloor insulation
and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps. One quote has been 6k
All up for this property-probably around 10-12k
Have another 4 rentals with similar costs.

We heard that the gaps should be less than 3mm or else they need work. 85sqm place have ran up to $1k of work. Single floor.

rayonline_tm - 2021-06-13 11:36:00

quibbling over the size of the gaps, thats just so sad its hilarious.

keep in mind if you have just done moisture barrier and underfloor insulation, all those gaps are going to open back up as the floor/house dries out.
far better to wait a year or two before sealing up gaps. then just seal up all the gaps, worrying about size of gap is feral. just seal them all.

your so lucky the govt air leakage standards and testing is so poorly done.

tweake - 2021-06-13 12:43:00

pcle wrote:

Do tenants look at the rent increases as an expense or well worth it for the improvements? Most won't use the extractor fans. Hardly touch the heat pump. But the insulation sure is good. And all that new tax they have to pay sure is fair.

Dunno but ask Phil Twyford. Oh wait...

Edited by fxx99 at 1:41 pm, Sun 13 Jun

fxx99 - 2021-06-13 13:40:00

we moved into a house last year with no heating and minimal insulation
we have put down a moisture barrier, underfloor and ceiling insulation, DVS and a fire.
Now the house is lovely and warm and dry, but the floorboards have buckled something terrible since they dried out! Not something I thought about and I wonder if this will happen to these rentals getting up to HH standards.

kateley - 2021-06-13 14:11:00

fxx99 wrote:

mazalinas wrote:

-

Gawd, they must have been freezing to live in![/quote

No, just like any other house before HH's came in, never had any complaints and all north facing.

Tell me about the house you live in or rent? I mean if you are renting it, you will be paying for it with rent probably to go up again next year.

Nah, I do "favours" for the landlord so all good.

mazalinas - 2021-06-13 20:44:00

mazalinas wrote:

Nah, I do "favours" for the landlord so all good.

What kind of favours?

fxx99 - 2021-06-14 10:38:00

mazalinas wrote:

Gawd, they must have been freezing to live in!

Seriously!! It's only cold in a few months a year. Most of those months it's only at night. Some areas hardly at all although the South is no doubt a bit different. I'm still wearing T shirts this particular year. No insulation anywhere. We do have a fire we light some nights but mostly to heat the hot water.

bryalea - 2021-06-14 12:49:00

bryalea wrote:

Seriously!! It's only cold in a few months a year. Most of those months it's only at night. Some areas hardly at all although the South is no doubt a bit different. I'm still wearing T shirts this particular year. No insulation anywhere. We do have a fire we light some nights but mostly to heat the hot water.

you can put up with it ok. thats absolutely fine.

but what your saying is that no one else is allowed a warm, dry, cheap to heat house, just because its fine for you.
if you have a decent house, you can have at any temp you like, hot or cold. so why are you trying to stop people from having that choice.

tweake - 2021-06-14 16:13:00

Yup, $766 for a moisture barrier last month. Now all HH compliant.

thumbs647 - 2021-06-14 17:24:00

desi1969 wrote:

Yes have spent dollars.
Technically don't have to as our tenants have been there for a long time (and honestly I don't see them moving in the next 3-4 years), but have been making the upgrades anyway.

Much easier to do now than stress about it when tenant moves or the deadline hits, (plus there was the increased 'expense' threshold last year ;) AND I don't think any of the 'upgrades' were unreasonable ... I've not got an issue with the HH requirements.

Can you expand please on the increased expenses threshold ? (No idea what you're talking about)

Edited by houseofdad at 5:43 pm, Mon 14 Jun

houseofdad - 2021-06-14 17:43:00

fxx99 wrote:

One of my rentals
3.5k for heat pump
1k for ceiling insulation
$600 for moisture barrier
1k for underfloor insulation
and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps. One quote has been 6k
All up for this property-probably around 10-12k
Have another 4 rentals with similar costs.

There has to be other stuff you haven't mentioned or you were ripped off.

Edited by houseofdad at 5:45 pm, Mon 14 Jun

houseofdad - 2021-06-14 17:44:00

houseofdad wrote:

There has to be other stuff you haven't mentioned or you were ripped off.

Needs to do favours with the tradespeople.

mazalinas - 2021-06-14 20:30:00

mazalinas wrote:

Nah, I do "favours" for the landlord so all good.

..so they aren't particularly fussy then..

theguyz1 - 2021-06-14 20:42:00

houseofdad wrote:

There has to be other stuff you haven't mentioned or you were ripped off.

Oh year $700 for the extractor fan in the kitchen and fan in bathroom I put in about 8 years ago so include another $500. Yeah I could say I was ripped off. Anything else you can think of?

Times this by another 4 rentals and yeah totally ripped off.

fxx99 - 2021-06-14 22:53:00

We’ve done all ours. We are paying for each flat/unit to be assessed for HH as they become vacant.

princess52 - 2021-06-15 10:37:00

mazalinas wrote:

Gawd, they must have been freezing to live in!

Weird that many houses have been fine for 30 or 40 years and are suddenly now, apparently, "unhealthy".

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-15 10:47:00

pcle wrote:

Do tenants look at the rent increases as an expense or well worth it for the improvements? Most won't use the extractor fans. Hardly touch the heat pump. But the insulation sure is good. And all that new tax they have to pay sure is fair.

Only idiots don't use extractor fans. Especially in a house with good or increased insulation (so reduced natural ventilation). I bet those are the type of people who wonder why their house is moldy and blame the landlord or anyone but themselves.

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-15 10:50:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Weird that many houses have been fine for 30 or 40 years and are suddenly now, apparently, "unhealthy".

nz house have always been crap.
we just put up with it and do bandaids so we can make more profit when we sell it.
if we can put up with the crap then so can everyone else that has no choice.

tweake - 2021-06-15 13:00:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Only idiots don't use extractor fans. Especially in a house with good or increased insulation (so reduced natural ventilation). I bet those are the type of people who wonder why their house is moldy and blame the landlord or anyone but themselves.

insulation makes no real practice difference to ventilation. (with the exception of spray foam). as air goes around the insulation and even through it to a degree.
newer houses are more air tight because of gib methods and lately due to led lighting.

tweake - 2021-06-15 13:03:00

tweake wrote:

insulation makes no real practice difference to ventilation. (with the exception of spray foam). as air goes around the insulation and even through it to a degree.
newer houses are more air tight because of gib methods and lately due to led lighting.

Are you sure? I have read that one of the reasons for older homes becoming increasingly more mouldy is because upping the insulation in them has made them more air tight so there is less natural ventilation

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-15 13:20:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Are you sure? I have read that one of the reasons for older homes becoming increasingly more mouldy is because upping the insulation in them has made them more air tight so there is less natural ventilation

yes/no.
the catch here is its not simple. there is many different things going on.

you can get drying via wind, which is what a lot of the really old houses have. like one of my old flats where the carpet used to fly up the hallway. its not "air leakage" its wind. insulation can block wind but its still going let some air around it or through it.
wind can dry but removes every bit of heating. house is dry but its freezing. which is better than nothing but its not great.

the problem can come in when you don't have wind blowing through the house to dry. but the air flow you do have is actually wet. have a look at the humidity levels around the country today, most are in the 90% range. so all that air coming in is not only not drying anything, its making things damp.
the only way to be able to dry the house is if we heat it that air up so its humidity is a lot lower.
the heat also moves the moisture in furnishings and woodwork. so its a win-win. that dries a house very well.
the problem is we are not heating the houses, often because its to costly because we don't have enough insulation and we have excessive ventilation. we don't need huge amounts of ventilation, we just need enough to get the bad stuff out of the house.

sorry so long winded (no pun intended) but its more than just ventilation. its about everything working together.

just keep in mind, nz average outdoor humidity for a lot of the areas is 80%. mold needs the airs humidity to be 80% and up to start growing.

Edited by tweake at 2:08 pm, Tue 15 Jun

tweake - 2021-06-15 14:03:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Are you sure? I have read that one of the reasons for older homes becoming increasingly more mouldy is because upping the insulation in them has made them more air tight so there is less natural ventilation

the other way to look at it is to look at the super duper airtight houses. the insanely air tight house. even houses that are air tighter than passive house.
do they have mold issues?
no.
yet they have almost no 'natural ventilation'. so lack of natural ventilation does not cause mold issues.

tweake - 2021-06-15 14:12:00

tweake wrote:

yes/no.
the catch here is its not simple. there is many different things going on.

you can get drying via wind, which is what a lot of the really old houses have. like one of my old flats where the carpet used to fly up the hallway. its not "air leakage" its wind. insulation can block wind but its still going let some air around it or through it.
wind can dry but removes every bit of heating. house is dry but its freezing. which is better than nothing but its not great.

the problem can come in when you don't have wind blowing through the house to dry. but the air flow you do have is actually wet. have a look at the humidity levels around the country today, most are in the 90% range. so all that air coming in is not only not drying anything, its making things damp.
the only way to be able to dry the house is if we heat it that air up so its humidity is a lot lower.
the heat also moves the moisture in furnishings and woodwork. so its a win-win. that dries a house very well.
the problem is we are not heating the houses, often because its to costly because we don't have enough insulation and we have excessive ventilation. we don't need huge amounts of ventilation, we just need enough to get the bad stuff out of the house.

sorry so long winded (no pun intended) but its more than just ventilation. its about everything working together.

just keep in mind, nz average outdoor humidity for a lot of the areas is 80%. mold needs the airs humidity to be 80% and up to start growing.

No need to be sorry for a good explanation

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-15 14:20:00

fxx99 wrote:

Oh year $700 for the extractor fan in the kitchen and fan in bathroom I put in about 8 years ago so include another $500. Yeah I could say I was ripped off. Anything else you can think of?

Times this by another 4 rentals and yeah totally ripped off.

I"m $3000 per heatpump (7.2KW) $550 for kitchen fan but only plugging into stove. $550 insulation. 70sqm units.

houseofdad - 2021-06-15 14:58:00

mazalinas wrote:

Needs to do favours with the tradespeople.

I used to do some "favours" for tenants when I was a sparky rewiring statehouses.

houseofdad - 2021-06-15 15:00:00

fxx99 wrote:

... and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps.

Unless the existing door is warped, couldn't you fix the gaps problem by re-positioning or replacing the door jambs. I'm doing that at the moment with one of mine. Easy peasy.

webworth - 2021-06-16 02:53:00

webworth wrote:

Unless the existing door is warped, couldn't you fix the gaps problem by re-positioning or replacing the door jambs. I'm doing that at the moment with one of mine. Easy peasy.

No unfortunately not, door is warped and frame needs some work too.

fxx99 - 2021-06-16 11:03:00

fxx99 wrote:

One of my rentals
3.5k for heat pump
1k for ceiling insulation
$600 for moisture barrier
1k for underfloor insulation
and in the process for getting a quote for a new door that fails the HH standard for draught gaps. One quote has been 6k
All up for this property-probably around 10-12k
Have another 4 rentals with similar costs.

sounds like legitimate buisness costs , every business in NZ is regulated and has compliance costs, l dont know why the housing rental industry is so precious...

Edited by thornton1961 at 10:05 pm, Wed 16 Jun

thornton1961 - 2021-06-16 21:56:00

thornton1961 wrote:

sounds like legitimate buisness costs , every business in NZ is regulated and has compliance costs, l dont know why the housing rental industry is so precious...

It's those cry baby tenants. Can't figure out why they hate paying for it all...

pcle - 2021-06-17 06:46:00

pcle wrote:

It's those cry baby tenants. Can't figure out why they hate paying for it all...

Aww they nice and warm now (if they can afford to turn the heat pump on).

fxx99 - 2021-06-17 10:00:00

thornton1961 wrote:

sounds like legitimate buisness costs , every business in NZ is regulated and has compliance costs, l dont know why the housing rental industry is so precious...

pcle wrote:

It's those cry baby tenants. Can't figure out why they hate paying for it all...

This

If only the tenants would complain to the people who are putting up their housing provider's compliance costs. It's like there is this weird cognitive dissonance where renters can't work out it's really the Labour government to blame as to why their rent is increasing at record rates.

Edited by loose.unit8 at 10:06 am, Thu 17 Jun

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-17 10:05:00

thornton1961 wrote:

sounds like legitimate buisness costs , every business in NZ is regulated and has compliance costs, l dont know why the housing rental industry is so precious...

I agree, all these people moaning about maintaining an asset, the world slumlord comes to mind

csador - 2021-06-17 10:12:00

I wish that compliant healthy homes were a requirement for all homes, not just rentals...

lovelurking - 2021-06-17 10:35:00

lovelurking wrote:

I wish that compliant healthy homes were a requirement for all homes, not just rentals...

odds are that will be coming for new homes.
it would be a good idea to apply that to all homes. i've seen it mention overseas where they require that any time a repair is done its to be upgrade to the new standards.

tweake - 2021-06-17 14:16:00

tweake wrote:

odds are that will be coming for new homes.
it would be a good idea to apply that to all homes. i've seen it mention overseas where they require that any time a repair is done its to be upgrade to the new standards.

Why would it be needed for new homes? Surely the building construction regulations would be far above whatever is in the healthy homes legislation.

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-17 14:20:00

loose.unit8 wrote:

Why would it be needed for new homes? Surely the building construction regulations would be far above whatever is in the healthy homes legislation.

lol nz building code is so far behind its in the dark ages.
way to many decades pandering to the profit margins instead of making decent homes.

Edited by tweake at 2:47 pm, Thu 17 Jun

tweake - 2021-06-17 14:47:00

tweake wrote:

lol nz building code is so far behind its in the dark ages.
way to many decades pandering to the profit margins instead of making decent homes.

Maybe, maybe not.

But my point was, it would be a weird situation if we were forcing older homes to be above the standards we set for new homes. Conversely, building home which are already not up to healthy home standard is nuts.

loose.unit8 - 2021-06-17 14:51:00

This message was deleted.

kiwilandchch - 2021-06-17 15:00:00