I see we have an announcement from Grant Robinson on this later, what do you all think he is going to do? If you care to I'd be interested to hear what you think the cause is and how/why you think his action will fix it!

magicroundbout - 2021-02-09 09:24:00

Unfortunately I think as a whole the country has to get past the 'everyone should be able to own a free standing house on their own block of land' We are going to need to get use to apartment style living. The government should stop focusing on first home buyers and put all it's efforts in housing those who can't afford to even save for a house, build apartments for this group and employ people to work with them to educate them how to look after their apartment, encourage pride in the place, they live. Get community gardens going and teach families how to grow their own food.

coolnzmum - 2021-02-09 09:31:00

Yeah we certainly need more apartments I think one of the most needed HNZ types of property here (Wellington) is a 1 bed

magicroundbout - 2021-02-09 09:37:00

magicroundbout wrote:

I see we have an announcement from Grant Robinson on this later, what do you all think he is going to do? If you care to I'd be interested to hear what you think the cause is and how/why you think his action will fix it!

The government is printing money, so with low interest rates nothing is going to change they could say investors have to pay higher interest rates but all that will do is make investors borrow money from overseas. I can get money from the UK at .3% yes .3% most people don't look outside NZ but the smart investors do so the government has nothing it can do to stop the housing problem apart from freeing up land for housing which means taking control from councils because that is causing the problem always has.

andrewcg53 - 2021-02-09 09:40:00

yes.. the government has signalled that they are going to do something to "discourage" investor and "encourage" first home buyers...
Perhaps there should be some thinking outside the square and instead of penalising the buyer for being an "investor" ... penalise the seller for selling to an investor.. tax the capital gains if you sell to an investor !!!

onl_148 - 2021-02-09 10:28:00

to my mind there is a disconnect between what they are saying and what they want to happen (or what they intend to do?!)

They want to make houses more affordable yet don't want prices to drop

I think every time you take action to make houses more 'affordable' that is outside of falling prices you are pushing the price up.

magicroundbout - 2021-02-09 10:30:00

onl_148 wrote:

ypenalise the seller for selling to an investor.. tax the capital gains if you sell to an investor !!!

that's an interesting one, why not if you can sort out a watertight definition of an investor?

I see lots of family houses round here (suburban Wellington) sell for insanely high prices then go straight on to the rental market for rent at a loss.

magicroundbout - 2021-02-09 10:34:00

coolnzmum wrote:

Unfortunately-
I think as a whole the country has to get past the 'everyone should be able to own a free standing house on their own block of land' We are going to need to get use to apartment style living. The government should stop focusing on first home buyers and put all it's efforts in housing those who can't afford to even save for a house, build apartments for this group and employ people to work with them to educate them how to look after their apartment, encourage pride in the place, they live. Get community gardens going and teach families how to grow their own food.

Not saying these are not good ideas but did you notice it is all taxpayer funded welfare? What happened to personal responsibility and family stepping up to help their own?

artemis - 2021-02-09 10:57:00

magicroundbout wrote:

that's an interesting one, why not if you can sort out a watertight definition of an investor?

I see lots of family houses round here (suburban Wellington) sell for insanely high prices then go straight on to the rental market for rent at a loss.

Rental losses are usually for a few years. Majority of landlords make a net rental profit.

Edited by artemis at 10:58 am, Tue 9 Feb

artemis - 2021-02-09 10:58:00

artemis wrote:

What happened to ... family stepping up to help their own?

That creates and entrenches inequity, because not everyone has family to step up; and not everyone's family has equal ability to step up.

luteba - 2021-02-09 11:16:00

artemis wrote:

Not saying these are not good ideas but did you notice it is all taxpayer funded welfare?

It doesn't have to be taxpayer funded welfare though. Much of what the poster was suggesting can be addressed through zoning, or tax incentives/disincentives (for building particular dwelling types, including build-to-rent) instead.

Edited by luteba at 11:22 am, Tue 9 Feb

luteba - 2021-02-09 11:21:00

onl_148 wrote:

yes.. the government has signalled that they are going to do something to "discourage" investor and "encourage" first home buyers...
Perhaps there should be some thinking outside the square and instead of penalising the buyer for being an "investor" ... penalise the seller for selling to an investor.. tax the capital gains if you sell to an investor !!!

I like it, I also like charging the scammed for letting a scammer scam them. It would work faster than trying to chase down the scammers.

mkr_ahearn - 2021-02-09 12:04:00

Finance Minister
"The first of those will be on the demand side measures which will come in late February. We all know that building more houses, particularly affordable houses, is critical. But we also can do more to manage demand, particularly from those who are speculating."

I am eager to hear what the Cabinet will do.

aklreels - 2021-02-09 13:23:00

A few more lockdowns without any mortgage holiday being made available will see prices come down real quick. A story I read some weeks ago said the banks don't want anymore mortgage holidays so its entirely possible.

cassina1 - 2021-02-09 13:47:00

cassina1 wrote:

A few more lockdowns without any mortgage holiday being made available will see prices come down real quick. A story I read some weeks ago said the banks don't want anymore mortgage holidays so its entirely possible.

Banks have always offered mortgage holidays. It's not a new thing. They always win in the end due to the interest still being added to the principle while on 'holiday' thus resulting in more interest paid in total and higher repayments once off the holiday. What they have never liked is the same people going on multiple mortgage holidays. Suggests the people can't afford the mortgage they are in.

loose.unit8 - 2021-02-09 14:20:00

Instead of penalising investors who are providing rentals, why not encourage building?
Start by taking off the council development charges which are really a tax on new housing.
Remove the hurdles of the resource management act. Yes I know Nat, Lab, NZ 1st and Act all said its a good idea but no-one did anything.
Let the commerce Commission prosecute a couple of the cartels fixing materials prices.
Flood the market with new housing and prices will stabilise or even drop.

masturbidder - 2021-02-09 14:32:00

coolnzmum wrote:

Unfortunately-
I think as a whole the country has to get past the 'everyone should be able to own a free standing house on their own block of land' We are going to need to get use to apartment style living. The government should stop focusing on first home buyers and put all it's efforts in housing those who can't afford to even save for a house, build apartments for this group and employ people to work with them to educate them how to look after their apartment, encourage pride in the place, they live. Get community gardens going and teach families how to grow their own food.

Yep been saying that for many years.
Well managed USA style fully furnished apartment blocks.

mrfxit - 2021-02-09 15:04:00

masturbidder wrote:

Instead of penalising investors who are providing rentals, why not encourage building?
Start by taking off the council development charges which are really a tax on new housing.
Remove the hurdles of the resource management act. Yes I know Nat, Lab, NZ 1st and Act all said its a good idea but no-one did anything.
Let the commerce Commission prosecute a couple of the cartels fixing materials prices.
Flood the market with new housing and prices will stabilise or even drop.

Don't be sensible. A capital gains tax will fix it and solve child poverdy. Just ask Cinders...

pcle - 2021-02-09 15:11:00

This message was deleted.

vintage_betty - 2021-02-09 16:00:00

artemis wrote:

Not saying these are not good ideas but did you notice it is all taxpayer funded welfare? What happened to personal responsibility and family stepping up to help their own?

what happened to people being able to do it on their own? Also if you want to look at taxpayer funded welfare look no further than the accommodation supplement which is basically a supplement that enables landlords to charge such exorbitant rents.

The govt would be far better off paying the accommodation supplement to low income people who are living in their own homes paying off their own mortgage. The benefits long term would be immeasurable.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 16:06:00

I think more over 65s units would be a big help. Clear out the big houses and give older New Zealanders a safe low maintenance independent option as opposed to a retirement home set up.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 16:08:00

luteba wrote:

That creates and entrenches inequity, because not everyone has family to step up; and not everyone's family has equal ability to step up.

yes why should someone who grows up in a rental be banished to living in a rental their whole life just because their parents couldn’t help? Talk about poverty trap.

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 16:10:00

lakeview3 wrote:

The govt would be far better off paying the accommodation supplement to low income people who are living in their own homes paying off their own mortgage. The benefits long term would be immeasurable.

The accommodation supplement is already available to low income people making mortgage payments. The problem is that house prices are so high people on low incomes can't raise the deposit, or afford the rest of the mortgage payment (the accommodation supplement is not enough to make the mortgage affordable).

luteba - 2021-02-09 16:15:00

cassina1 wrote:

A few more lockdowns without any mortgage holiday being made available will see prices come down real quick. A story I read some weeks ago said the banks don't want anymore mortgage holidays so its entirely possible.

There is a line of people out the door and around the block wanting to get into NZ. A mate is doing some renovation work for a wealthy person in the US who has bought a house here (through an agent), which I thought they couldn't do, but he says there is a loophole. The American then hopes to use the house to support NZ residency application.

Property prices won't fall, govt will open the floodgates and let in (more) wealthy foreigners before they let that happen.

Builder mate says he has just been notified that prices of timber are going up by another eight percent. Also having a lot of trouble sourcing a lot of stuff due to the Lurgy.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 17:00:00

Engineering firms were roasted over CTV and building failures in Welly. Many are designing for 'worst case scenario' - whatever that is. Talking to friends in the building trade, this is pushing up the cost to build by a significant amount.
Plus the prices for bare sections have sky rocketed. There aren't going to be any easy fixes.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 17:07:00

apollo11 wrote:

There is a line of people out the door and around the block wanting to get into NZ. A mate is doing some renovation work for a wealthy person in the US who has bought a house here (through an agent), which I thought they couldn't do, but he says there is a loophole. The American then hopes to use the house to support NZ residency application.

Property prices won't fall, govt will open the floodgates and let in (more) wealthy foreigners before they let that happen.

Builder mate says he has just been notified that prices of timber are going up by another eight percent. Also having a lot of trouble sourcing a lot of stuff due to the Lurgy.

whats this supposed ‘loophole’?

We don’t want these people here unless they are a doctor/surgeon/dentist/midwife-
etc etc

I hope the govt hurrys up and makes it 20 years living and working before qualifying for pensions and also they need to look at people paying for their own healthcare if they are new arrivals.

If they haven’t got the skills or means to pay health then they can stay where they are as far as I am concerned. This New Zealand ‘PIE’ has already been divided up into too many pieces and New Zealanders are paying the price by missing out on services and resources that new arrivals haven’t contributed to.

Edited by lakeview3 at 5:12 pm, Tue 9 Feb

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 17:12:00

lakeview3 wrote:

whats this supposed ‘loophole’?

We don’t want these people here unless they are a doctor/surgeon/dentist/midwife-
etc etc

From what I understand, the agent wrangles it so it looks like he is buying it, perhaps as one of the signatories of a trust perhaps? Not sure, but demand from the US has quadrupled since the elections.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 17:19:00

apollo11 wrote:

From what I understand, the agent wrangles it so it looks like he is buying it, perhaps as one of the signatories of a trust perhaps? Not sure, but demand from the US has quadrupled since the elections.

right wing nuts wanting to escape a Biden presidency? We definitely don’t want any of those.

sparkychap - 2021-02-09 17:22:00

PS the agent would be committing fraud as well as beaching AML regulations. That’s not a “loophole”.

sparkychap - 2021-02-09 17:24:00

sparkychap wrote:

PS the agent would be committing fraud as well as beaching AML regulations. That’s not a “loophole”.

Yeah, I should have quizzed him on it, but he was finishing up for the day. I'll try to find out more tomorrow.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 17:38:00

sparkychap wrote:

right wing nuts wanting to escape a Biden presidency? We definitely don’t want any of those.

It is more likely to be a liberal - smart enough to see what's coming and wealthy enough to do something about it - than a redneck who spent all his money on guns and beer lol.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 17:42:00

apollo11 wrote:

Yeah, I should have quizzed him on it, but he was finishing up for the day. I'll try to find out more tomorrow.

good idea, see if you can find out. I daresay the American may run into trouble if they apply for residency anyway so their attempts to bypass everything could be in vain. In the meantime it’s not helping our housing situation is it! As I said if they have skills then OK but otherwise the last thing we need is more disaffected Americans and the like moving here unless they really have something worthwhile t o contribute.

Edited by lakeview3 at 5:49 pm, Tue 9 Feb

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 17:48:00

apollo11 wrote:

It is more likely to be a liberal - smart enough to see what's coming and wealthy enough to do something about it - than a redneck who spent all his money on guns and beer lol.

yeah it’s going to the pack over there really quickly. Portland is still having riots and destruction, don’t see any reports over here about that......I wonder why? (well I know why, but we aren’t allowed to talk about why or have an opinion ????)

I am now a robot. ????

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 17:51:00

sparkychap wrote:

PS the agent would be committing fraud as well as beaching AML regulations. That’s not a “loophole”.

I reckon!

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 17:52:00

sparkychap wrote:

right wing nuts wanting to escape a Biden presidency? We definitely don’t want any of those.

Lets build a wall lol

mkr_ahearn - 2021-02-09 18:32:00

lakeview3 wrote:

I think more over 65s units would be a big help. Clear out the big houses and give older New Zealanders a safe low maintenance independent option as opposed to a retirement home set up.

The older folk who have lived in their HNZ for years don't want to move out of 'their' houses because they say they would lose their friends and community support. If these houses on larger sections were demolished and replaced with one bedroom apartments they could be rehoused in the same community. But their relatives wouldn't be able to move in with them as so oten happens now, if they are in a 3 bedroom place.

pauline999 - 2021-02-09 18:45:00

pauline999 wrote:

The older folk who have lived in their HNZ for years don't want to move out of 'their' houses because they say they would lose their friends and community support. If these houses on larger sections were demolished and replaced with one bedroom apartments they could be rehoused in the same community. But their relatives wouldn't be able to move in with them as so oten happens now, if they are in a 3 bedroom place.

it should never have been a home for life. I think that helped entrench some people’s thoughts and took away the need for them to be independent.

Read books or listen to some lectures of Thomas Sowell. A brilliant man who grew up in Harlem. He explains why welfare doesn’t actually help people. Unfortunately we are so far down the welfare rabbit hole it’s hard to unwind it all.

I guess it now comes down to teaching people, with the support of the govt, to help themselves. In the end we all win.

Edited by lakeview3 at 6:49 pm, Tue 9 Feb

lakeview3 - 2021-02-09 18:48:00

sparkychap wrote:

...as well as beaching AML regulations.

Did you find that out surfing the net?

seaqueen - 2021-02-09 18:52:00

Restrictions will be reintroduced on March 1, requiring property investors to stump up a 30 percent deposit for a house, with first-home buyers needing 20 percent.

From May 1, this will be increased to 40 percent deposit for investors.

May1st is 80 days from now.

aklreels - 2021-02-09 19:30:00

pauline999 wrote:

The older folk who have lived in their HNZ for years don't want to move out of 'their' houses because they say they would lose their friends and community support. If these houses on larger sections were demolished and replaced with one bedroom apartments they could be rehoused in the same community. But their relatives wouldn't be able to move in with them as so oten happens now, if they are in a 3 bedroom place.

My parents were in that position 45 years ago, and they asked HNZ to downgrade from the 3 bed they lived in for fourteen years to a 1 bed, which is what happened

mkr_ahearn - 2021-02-09 19:34:00

seaqueen wrote:

Did you find that out surfing the net?

Don't you have a toyboy to look after?

sparkychap - 2021-02-09 19:38:00

"We are now concerned about the risk a sharp correction in the housing market poses for financial stability. There is evidence of a speculative dynamic emerging, with many buyers becoming highly leveraged"

Like in a stock market, a topsy turvy world.

aklreels - 2021-02-09 19:43:00

magicroundbout wrote:

I see we have an announcement from Grant Robinson on this later, what do you all think he is going to do? If you care to I'd be interested to hear what you think the cause is and how/why you think his action will fix it!

they will do nothing.
it will be mindless fluff, do a few things to look like they are doing something, which ultimately doesn't do anything.

no politician wants to anger the main voting population by screwing with their income and retirement fund.
they will "let nature take its course", the market will eventually crash and politicians will cry crocodile tears, and the whole cycle will repeat itself yet again.

kiwis expect to make money out of housing, even while its at the cost of future generations.

tweake - 2021-02-09 20:43:00

tweake wrote:

they will do nothing.
it will be mindless fluff, do a few things to look like they are doing something, which ultimately doesn't do anything.

no politician wants to anger the main voting population by screwing with their income and retirement fund.
they will "let nature take its course", the market will eventually crash and politicians will cry crocodile tears, and the whole cycle will repeat itself yet again.

kiwis expect to make money out of housing, even while its at the cost of future generations.

I agree, they will do nothing. The only fix would be to either sharply reduce demand (population) or to strip away all of the 'enhancements' to the building code, support councils and developers in creating subdivisions, and allow the mass importation of building supplies. None of that is likely to happen.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 21:05:00

And safety measures have also added cost. The house next door has just been fully scaffolded- and will cost the owner 30 grand all up. While more safety awareness was sorely needed on building sites, it all adds to the cost to build.

apollo11 - 2021-02-09 21:12:00

apollo11 wrote:

I agree, they will do nothing. The only fix would be to either sharply reduce demand (population) or to strip away all of the 'enhancements' to the building code, support councils and developers in creating subdivisions, and allow the mass importation of building supplies. None of that is likely to happen.

changing building code or cheaper materials won't do anything.
there is a lot of factors involved and fiddling with a few might backfire and of course there is some basic core factors that if not changed will simply cause it to happen again later on.

reducing population might happen after covid blows through and people go back overseas chasing income.

tweake - 2021-02-09 22:05:00

Resigned to a dysfunctional state? Surely no, there is hope. And we must ask that our leaders do what must be done. A retirement scheme sounds good, greed does not.
I will want to see NZ ers able to raise a family, safe, in their own homes.

aklreels - 2021-02-10 08:56:00

NZ Herald

From May 1, 2021:

• LVR restrictions for owner-occupiers will remain at a maximum of 20 per cent of new lending at LVRs above 80 per cent.

• LVR restrictions for investors will be further raised to a maximum of 5 per cent of new lending at LVRs above 60 Per cent.

aklreels - 2021-02-10 09:37:00

Return stamp duty on second house purchase?
Not a new tax. Not a CGT. Won't affect first home buyers. Won't raise rents much.
Labour & Greens love tax. Waiting in anticipation!

pcle - 2021-02-10 10:05:00

onl_148 wrote:

yes.. the government has signalled that they are going to do something to "discourage" investor and "encourage" first home buyers...
Perhaps there should be some thinking outside the square and instead of penalising the buyer for being an "investor" ... penalise the seller for selling to an investor.. tax the capital gains if you sell to an investor !!!

Seems bizarre doesn't it? 'Investing' is discouraged, but then workers/employers are required to make contributions to 'savings' plans which currently are returning (after admin costs) very little to the beneficiary.

brouser3 - 2021-02-10 11:29:00